Anyone train at Panza? BS senses are tingling

**ChrisWTK** · Posted On: 11/05/2006 7:44pm

Originally Posted by ojgsxr6

It's definitely not BS as far as teaching you how to fight/Grapple/Kickbox. I think it just might be expensive for most people ie. Me. The reason I don't go was because all the students were really new and they haven't even started doing 2 man drills let alone sparring yet. The boxing coach has actual boxing experience, Derek Panza has actually fought in Kickboxing, the grappling coach from what I hear is some crazy Lithuanian guy, that can grapple too. Oh, and they actually have an MMA team that has put out fighters.

Darn...I think i'll still check out the place, but I really can't do expensive right now, my part time job does not cover tuition and MA fees. But I'm gonna make $50 tonight freezing my ass off at Sports Plus...every little bit counts. :)

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 11/05/2006 8:37pm

Originally Posted by ChrisWTK

spar? Yeah, I'll wait another month or two til we do that again. Although the last time we did spar I got my first tapout against nick!! we actually did some ground fighting, of course after that we found out that sensei wasn't gonna be teaching anymore.

Ah so his blaze of glory was allowing you guys to grapple again, just so that it's even more apparent that those which replace you won't do any grappling at all, if not badmouth the idea of it.

Well I can tell you that the guy who's going to be running the school (Shihan) does have grappling experience through Serra, but I couldn't tell you how much. He doesn't formally train BJJ as far as I know, so I'd assume it's more of a 1 on 1 training session where they "share ideas." I have no idea how Nick (shihan) is going to teach or if it's going to be worthwhile at all. I can tell you that with the bull that myself and James dealt with there, that he honestly believes that people can't learn to "fight" -in the terms that most on this site view effective fighting- before they learn all their forms/katas/compliant techniques, and those that CAN learn to "fight" without all that are just a minority of young, strong, athletic individuals.

He doesn't believe people can learn to jab properly without punching from chamber first, and doesn't believe that women, children, or older people can or are willing to participate in real live rolling or sparring. He has his kickboxers that he puts in the ring for his own legitimacy, but unless you prove yourself to him first, he won't teach you worth a damned thing useful beyond basic Kempo curriculum.

Do you think that this panza place is bs? Cause if it is then there's no use to switch from one form of bs to another, unless of course you argue that learning any type of mma is better than the kempo i'm learning.

No it's not BS as far as instruction goes. I was just put off by the ranking structure and pseudo-government they set up. Then again I guess I coulda said the same thing during the inception of Gracie Jiu-jitsu rankings assuming I was a Brazilian 50 years ago.

**bodhistate** · Posted On: 11/05/2006 9:10pm

Well, it's good to see they consider themselves teh deadly, particularly with children, and apparently anyone else who walks throught the door and signs up. Unfortunately, I can't copy and paste the text I'd like to, but if you read through the description of what Panza is all about, you'll see what I mean.

I would love to see a 6 y/o old use their skills to get out of being sat by someone twice their size. Also, kids and teens are put in charge of younger kids (to set a high standard and use their power to help, as well as to instruct), and the school teaches morals (wait I thought only parents could do that?), and develops a person spiritually as well as physicallly and mentally. As a woman, I'm also irritated by the description of their women's program for some reason.

Well, to each their own. It's a McDojo in structure and class schedule (yoga will be offered there soon enough), and from the descriptions some of it sounds like BS. But the adults program may be quite good. If you don't mind the McDojo aspects, it could be a solid MMA school. If you're really interested, go check it out. Can't be much worse than what you are already doing.

**ChrisWTK** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 11:14am

Originally Posted by KempoFist

He doesn't believe people can learn to jab properly without punching from chamber first, and doesn't believe that women, children, or older people can or are willing to participate in real live rolling or sparring. He has his kickboxers that he puts in the ring for his own legitimacy, but unless you prove yourself to him first, he won't teach you worth a damned thing useful beyond basic Kempo curriculum.

:crybaby2: Now I'll never learn teh r43l kempo.

I found the panza place, it only took me an hour to for a twenty minute drive. Women can't follow directions. It looks nice, i'll probably go back there tomorrow when they're open to ask about pricing.

**sempaiman** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 12:44pm

Why the belt structure other than to collect testing fees (sub-ranks within belts also). Usually what separates rank in Karate is forms. You learn different forms at different ranks. What do you do here, learns a jab at white belt and a hook a blue belt. Also, do people wear belts while doing boxing class (shorts, belt, tank top - must look funky). I think some sort of Level system (Level 1 - 5) would be suficient, but less belt fees and test fees.

**money** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 1:20pm

Originally Posted by KempoFist

Once you start getting passed 4th degree, you start needing a vote and vouchers from the damned Jedi Council.

I'm not sure if I would label this is a total McDojo tactic. My understanding from my sensei is something similiar in that 4th Dan is the highest we test ability for, after that it's more as recognition for your contribution to the art (through teaching, etc).

**Askari** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 3:46pm

After noting that Panza lists Guy Mezger as an affiliate who has a 6th degree BB, I went through the links to Mezger's site http://www.guymezger.com/

Mezger lists the 6th dan on his site under qualifications as well as calling his club the Free Style Martial Arts/Lions Den Dallas.

So I guess you can now get dan ranks in MMA, so long as you call it Free Style Martial Arts.

**GIJoe6186** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 4:06pm

Umm just come on down to my school, its like wayyy better.

**sempaiman** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 5:48pm

Originally Posted by noto

I'm not sure if I would label this is a total McDojo tactic. My understanding from my sensei is something similiar in that 4th Dan is the highest we test ability for, after that it's more as recognition for your contribution to the art (through teaching, etc).

I think the whole ranks stuff is BS. Most 4 > dans can't fight for **** anyway (big bellys and lousy kicks). I know a school you can get to 4th dan in 4 years. But thats another matter.