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  1. PoleFighter is offline

    Professional Swede

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 7:59pm


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What to do when in this half guard position

    I am having difficulties when I am at the bottom of this half guard position. Any suggestions on things to try? I find that this position often deteriorates into a stalemate full of muscling and yanking by both parties.



    The picture is not really 100% accurate (for those of you smart enough to own Passing the Guard, the pass I am thinking of is called Knee Firt Pass and Lapel Control Pass in that book): I am more thinking about the guard pass where white attempts to pass by pushing his left knee into blues hip and pushing blue's top knee with his hand (in which case he would have his left arm around the head of blue, instead of what he is doing here, which seems to be going for a kimura). Also consider a variation of the above position: when the white player has his left arm past the blue player's left arm.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  2. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 9:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bridge and roll. He has no real base on the near side. Failing that, get on your side instead of on your back. Underhook the far side and work from there.

    Finally, you can take his back. With your right hand grab his pants near his knee. Unhook your half guard and bridge pushing his leg up and hook on the other side. Take his back. (I realize this is tough to see without pictures, maybe Aesopian or someone with better internet-fu than myself has a link to pictures of what I'm talking about).
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  3. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 9:37pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samfoo
    Bridge and roll. He has no real base on the near side. Failing that, get on your side instead of on your back. Underhook the far side and work from there.

    Finally, you can take his back. With your right hand grab his pants near his knee. Unhook your half guard and bridge pushing his leg up and hook on the other side. Take his back. (I realize this is tough to see without pictures, maybe Aesopian or someone with better internet-fu than myself has a link to pictures of what I'm talking about).
    Depending on how good the opponent is, he can get a pretty stable base from that position. Just kick that left leg out a little wider and . . . yeah, not so much getting rolled unless it's by a total meatball fattie fattie pants.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  4. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 9:49pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just did this a little while ago, so I'll see what I can dredge up from my notes.

    In the picture shown, the white guy (on top) can control the blue guy's left arm with his own left arm and then switch his hips so the left side of his back is against the blue guy's. The blue guy gets flattened out by the pressure on his left shoulder, so he can't turn in towards the white guy to shrimp. Then the white guy starts heel-toe walking his right foot (the one in the half-guard) up to the blue guy's butt, at which point he should be able to easily pop his right knee through the half-guard. The white guy then controls the blue guy's left arm with his right arm (to prevent the blue guy from turning in at the next move) and then switches his hips again so he's back in the position shown in the picture, chest-to-chest, except his knee is out. The white guy can then drive his right knee (the one freed) to the floor right by the blue guy's left hip. The white guy can then wiggle his right foot free, or use his left foot as a pry-bar to give him extra room to wiggle his foot free. End in mount, look cool.

    Alternatively, you can pull your right foot out backwards and end in sidemount.

    *edit* I'm looking up stuff in my notes if you're interested. Just tell me if this was helpful and/or understandable, and I'll post some more. *end edit*
    Last edited by ViciousFlamingo; 11/04/2006 9:56pm at .
  5. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 10:11pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unfortunately, my notes are woefully inadequate. I'm going to try to fill in the crap I left out, then maybe post here if people are still interested.

    But, in terms of the position in the picture, I'm of the opinion that the hip-switch going to chest-to-back or getting the underhook back on the bottom guy's left arm and staying chest-to-chest are both good options for the top guy. Otherwise, I've found (in my own admittedly short experience) that things tend to get stalemated.

    The guy on the bottom needs to concentrate on getting on his right hip so he's facing in towards the guy on top. Flattened out like he is in the picture he's just going to get mounted or sidemounted.

    Er, I forgot to go look up stuff on things to do if the top guy has the underhook.
  6. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 11:12pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would HIGHLY recommend some Eddie Bravo material on Half Guard. I've found "Lock Down" to be very effective when used on me or by me as a way to break the top player's base and allow room to work.

    If you want to attempt this technique, you need to purchase the book AND consult higher ranked students and/or your instructor.

    Here are some links I found:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33789
    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/archiv.../t-298504.html
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...2Half+Guard%22
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...2Half+Guard%22
  7. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2006 4:57pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two things you can do:

    1) He's too high in that photo, which means you should be able to hip escape with your right elbow and put him back into guard.

    2) Failing that, if he knows how to use his weight correctly, this is the best method to counter that position that I've worked out. Your right hand grabs his belt and you stiff-arm with your right arm. Undo your legs and let him pull his leg free. Because your right arm is locked straight, he can't follow you well and you can put him straight back into guard. I've been able to do this move on other black belts, including one who outweighs me by 80-100lbs.
  8. PoleFighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2006 5:42pm


     Style: Sandbagged BJJ white belt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks Johnny. That coupled with a suggestion I got from a half guard savvy blue today should be enough to keep me busy for a while.
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore
  9. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2006 6:03pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No problem.
    I found that a lot of half-guard trickery didn't work once the guy got on his side properly. We call it the "lazy man's guard pass" where you get your left hip on the floor, pull your right foot up, brush his knee off with your elbow then mount or pull your leg free. Stiff-arming meant that I could still be in the fight whereas a lot of other stuff didn't work for me against someone a lot heavier who knows how to use his weight. The thing with stiff-arming is, no-one told me about it, I just worked it out one day when I thought about the problem and then thought "What the hell have I been doing for the last 12 years?".

    Good luck with it.
  10. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2006 6:47pm

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     Style: ^_^

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    I've always been told to set a floater/elevator under his caught arm but it's hard to do so and sweep him that way without him falling over onto his opposite side hip and skipping his foot out. ANSERZ? ^/\^


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