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  1. #11
    DdlR's Avatar
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    To the OP, do check out the sites in depth, there's plenty of info. there to explain what these folks are doing and why they do it.

    Some MAists will insist that it's automatically BS because it's based on practical training drawn from ancient European combat books rather than on a living teacher-student lineage; obviously, most people who are active in this field do not agree with that point of view. Briefly, going by the standards of this site (live training, hard contact, etc.) what these people do is definitely not BS. They spar/fence hard using a wide range of sword simulators and body armor and usually incorporate grappling, throwing, etc. as well.

    Re. the SCA, etc. - before detailed translations of the old European combat treatises, etc. were widely available over the Internet, people with an interest in this area pretty much made it up as they went along, inspired in equal parts by Hollywood movies and by their own practical experience. Over the past ten-fifteen years, though, there has been a split between "re-enactors", whose interests lie as much or more in role-playing as knights as in authentic fighting styles, and those who are practicing these styles as serious MAs.

  2. #12

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    I certainly won't call BS on the level of contact, but would wonder how effective/authentic the training is if you are attempting to re-create the art. I think most here would agree it is difficult to learn a martial art merely from a book and practicing with friends, even if you have experience in other related arts.

    I give them credit for trying to do it.

    At least with japanese sword arts, you can find styles which train/teach what was taught around 60 years ago to japanese officers. Toyama-ryu etc.

  3. #13

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    Well, it is interesting.. but I'm certainly not familiar to it. I guess i always had a distorted view regarding traditional European ma's, i mean from what i've seen, medieval ma's seem so unsophisticated as compared to kenjutsu or bjj. And besides, who carries around a claymore nowadays? I'll definitely have to read more into it.
    Last edited by Lebeke1; 11/03/2006 6:03pm at .

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeke1
    Well, it is interesting.. but I'm certainly not familiar to it. I guess i always had a distorted view regarding traditional European ma's, i mean it seems so unsophisticated as compared to kenjutsu or bjj.
    Traditional European MA's like boxing or wrestling, yeah, they just seem so unsophisticated and lack utility - man I must have wasted all those years.

    Let alone those damn Spanish with their knife fighting, crap we all might as well pack up and go home.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"

  5. #15
    Torakaka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeke1
    Well, it is interesting.. but I'm certainly not familiar to it. I guess i always had a distorted view regarding traditional European ma's, i mean from what i've seen, it seems so unsophisticated as compared to kenjutsu or bjj. And besides, who carries around a claymore nowadays? I'll definitely have to read more into it.
    And your experience is what? People swinging around long swords in movies? Who carries around a katana nowadays? Bla bla bla bla bla.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askari
    Traditional European MA's like boxing or wrestling, yeah, they just seem so unsophisticated and lack utility - man I must have wasted all those years.

    Let alone those damn Spanish with their knife fighting, crap we all might as well pack up and go home.
    Well, true, but i meant things like jogo do pau, or uhlan fighting.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hl1978
    I certainly won't call BS on the level of contact, but would wonder how effective/authentic the training is if you are attempting to re-create the art. I think most here would agree it is difficult to learn a martial art merely from a book and practicing with friends, even if you have experience in other related arts.

    I give them credit for trying to do it.

    At least with japanese sword arts, you can find styles which train/teach what was taught around 60 years ago to japanese officers. Toyama-ryu etc.
    I was active in this field a few years ago. No-one would disagree that it's a hard task to "revive" a martial art like this, but these people are very serious about it and many do have extensive backgrounds in a range of other styles.

    Basically, everyone recognises that it's impossible to fully bring an extinct fighting style back to life, so the challenge is to get as close to the real thing as possible. This involves a combination of intensive academic work - many of the most prominent people in this field are high-level scholars - and a huge amount of pressure-testing. It does help that a large number of the old German, Italian etc. fighting treatises have now been fully translated and that they very clearly explain the techniques and tactics that were advocated by the old masters.

  8. #18
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeke1
    Well, it is interesting.. but I'm certainly not familiar to it. I guess i always had a distorted view regarding traditional European ma's, i mean from what i've seen, it seems so unsophisticated as compared to kenjutsu or bjj. And besides, who carries around a claymore nowadays? I'll definitely have to read more into it.
    That's a common misperception. In fact, it's very clear from reading the original treatises produced by masters like Fiore de Liberi, Johannes Lichtenauer and many others that their styles were every bit as sophisticated as the ko-ryu Japanese styles. It makes sense; professional fighting men, especially MA instructors, are going to reach similar conclusions no matter when or where they live.

  9. #19
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeke1
    Well, true, but i meant things like jogo do pau, or uhlan fighting.
    Jogo do Pau isn't medieval; or rather, its roots might extend back that far, but it's unprovable. The written evidence only goes back into the mid-late 1800s, which still makes it older than a lot of MA being practiced today ...

    Either way, I wouldn't say that JdP is less sophisticated than any other stick fighting sport, which is what it has become over the past twenty years or so. The old-school styles are still practiced in the North, much as they always have been, and nowadays there is also the option of armored full contact JdP, which has developed in the cities (especially Lisbon).

  10. #20
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    Medieval martial arts are so unsophisticated that the same thing is still taught to the army today.

    http://www.paulushectormair.com/CQC_PHM.htm

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