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  1. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 1:56am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    fuckin Bodhidarma lineage.....
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  2. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 6:59am


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWarCheese
    Yeah, I have heard of a Mongolian wrestling that looks like Judo with leather shoulderpads or something. Also, that Yokozuna in Japan is a Mongolian immigrant or something. But they deffinitely don't call it Chin Na and from what I've seen it doesn't resembly the "refined" almost aiki-like movements of most Chin Na people.
    The outer styles look more like Judo or free styles because one can take legs, the inner styles are more like Greco Roman, but it is more like Sumo then Chin Na . In Tibet they use one of the inner styles.
  3. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/04/2006 5:18pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rexkwon
    The outer styles look more like Judo or free styles because one can take legs, the inner styles are more like Greco Roman, but it is more like Sumo then Chin Na . In Tibet they use one of the inner styles.
    I think it would be a very interesting art to study or at least investigate and the like. I doubt you could find a place outside of actual Mongolia, but that doesn't take away from its intrigue.:zicon_bat
  4. hoodedmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/05/2006 11:38pm


     Style: Bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I cant believe nobody has kicked villaries ass yet! I remember seeing this pud in magizenes back in 1985
  5. sidran is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/05/2006 11:55pm


     Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can tell you this, without looking at the website but from what you've said the history section just seems to me to be a copy-paste from villari's website (villari.com). Every Villari's school site I've been to had the same thing, exact wording. I can't tell you how many believe it word-for-word, to me it just seems like a self-promoting type of thing. I know many don't really put much weight in the accuracy of what it says. Seeing the Immortal Monkey thing always piqued my curiosity as I never really could find any information on it anywhere else and I never saw it when I went to Villari's. I assume it's something taught to the black-belt or higher ranks (I stopped right after my green belt).

    Anyways, growing up I went to a Villari's dojo in Charlton, MA and from my memory the chi-na that we learned basically boiled down to pressure points and whatnot. The grappling was OK, it was basically all derived from jujitsu (as per its kajukenbo lineage). I learned some useful stuff there like the basic concepts behind a successful through (off-balancing and all that). I remember we would learn throws usually as part of a pre-arrange combination (don't remember really much of them anymore). We didn't really practice them a whole lot.

    One thing that was stressed at my school, and I don't know how common this is, but when learning the combinations, we were to look at them not as something that we should try to pull off exactly like we do in the dojo when facing an attack on the street but as a way to learn new moves and to also learn concepts and getting used to throwing techniques in succession. Incidentally we also had training time devoted to learning and drilling strategies like how to counter-punch and faking and whatnot which I think was cool.

    Anyways, that's my experience. Take what you will from it.

    EDIT: And also, I don't know specifically about Chi-Na but I believe some CMA do have roots in Tibet and Mongolia so I don't really think that small point could be too far-fetched.
  6. hoodedmonk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/06/2006 12:09am


     Style: Bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    as a villari student answer this bullshido or legit?
  7. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    11/06/2006 12:59am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well as an ex Kempo student and up and coming instructor(till I got saved), I will call Bullshido on most forms of Kempo. The Chin Na part was taught in my school too and was as equally useless. I was from the Nick Cero line at USSD. I beleive both are the same with very minor differences, like WC/WT/VT.

    Cero calls his Shaolin Kempo while Villari calls it Shaolin Kempo Karate.
  8. sidran is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/06/2006 1:21am


     Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From my experience, McDojo, not Bullshido. But, I've heard horror stories about some places so for them, ya I'd call Bullshido.
  9. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/06/2006 1:31am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sparring is point based, although at my school there was heavy contact on rare occassions which could be true for others. Hands are chambered. Everything from horse stance. Emphasis on forms and static techniques. Pressure point fighting. Grapplers are just met by a knee.

    Yep Im guessing this is most Kempo in the world and coincedentally most Ke?po.
  10. sidran is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/06/2006 1:42am


     Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Sparring is point based, although at my school there was heavy contact on rare occassions which could be true for others. Hands are chambered. Everything from horse stance. Emphasis on forms and static techniques. Pressure point fighting. Grapplers are just met by a knee.

    Yep Im guessing this is most Kempo in the world and coincedentally most Ke?po.
    OK. My only contention for my place was the point-sparring. I never liked it. However, I didn't have much of the other stuff you mentioned. We chambered only when first learning the punches and blocks and basic practice warmups at the start of class. When drilling techniques, combos, and when sparring we always started from a half-moon stance, which is essentially the standard fighting stance most people fight in anyway (I still use it, I find it most natural). We did forms and static techniques but we also did a lot of free drilling. We even did wrestling every now and then (one of my best remembered classes involved primarily one long rolling session ending with us traveling across the entire dojo and me with rug burns on my face :)). Our sensei pushed us hard and I always got a good workout there. We had no insanely young instructors or anything and it would take a while to get to black. I got held back for my orange belt one year because I was lazy. It had its bad points but like I said it was more a symptom of a McDojo than Bullshido. So, I suppose my school was an oddity or something.
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