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  1. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 4:15am

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    limpet clinching

    phrost mentioned in another forum that more how tos would be nice so heres my first attempt... limpet clinching.

    where i train most of the guys are bigger than me. this is what comes of training in a samoan part of the city when you are a skinny white kid. this means that ive had to develop a slightly different way of clinching which i like to call limpet style

    the basic premise is to use as little energy as possible. people commented after my fight about my cardio- i dont have good cardio, i spent the week before that fight doing **** all because of an injury, and to be honest i was a bit lazy with my training. the reason he gassed and i didnt is because i used almost zero energy in the clinch while i could feel he was trying to muscle me every second he was in there. and theres a couple of good reasons for that which i will try to explain using the magic of the internet tubes.

    first some basic clinching ****. that you should already know if you have a coach who knows anything about the clinch but a lot of people dont.

    1- elbows in. your elbows/forearms want to be jammed in the hollow area between their pecs and the shoulder. from here you have basically nullified their ability to throw a punch with any sauce behind it because they cant turn their shoulders into it properly.

    2- your hands want to be on the inside of his if at all possible. having your hands inside gives you more leverage. this is a good thing.

    3- your hands cup round the back of the guys HEAD not the NECK. this is the one i see all the time. the neck is a shitty place to try and clinch someone because generally, the base of someones neck is pretty fucking strong. move your hands a few inches up to the back of their heads and not only does this put your elbows into the sweet spot i mentioned in point 1, but you have a shitload more leverage.

    thats the most basic stuff, try it on your mum/sister/elderly relatives whenever possible. remember, cries for mercy are to be ignored. training comes first. on to the limpet stuff-

    it was fairly apparent when i started training at balmoral that trying to clinch in the way people 40kg bigger than me did was idiotic. so i made a few adjustments.

    1- learn to let them come forwards. use your weight to resist so they dont just steamroll you over but dont use much force. step to the sides when they do it if you can. when i am throwing punches i am constantly moving forwards but the clinch is the opposite.

    2- dont try to go tit for tat with knees. instead of throwing a million knees wait for them to leave an opening and go for the ones that count.

    3- if they are about to throw you, keep your legs balanced and ready to simply jump in the direction they are throwing. dont fight it. this might sound odd but believe me nothing fucks people off more than trying to throw a guy and having them just jump in the direction you are trying to throw them. this is also a balance thing because if they are smart they will be tripping you at the same time, so you need to be on your toes. if you are holding them hard enough you shouldnt fall over and if you do you'll drag them down with you. if they are swinging you around then let them. they are the ones using energy in this situation, not you, and if they are expecting much resistance they might overpower it and come off balance themselves.

    4- if someone gets the idea of trying to crush your neck downwards, as so many of my samoan friends try to do (friends?) use one of your arms, place it across your forehead and grab something with it such as your opposite arm. now while they are futilely trying to crush you, you can have a nice little breather resting your head on your arm. note- this doesn't work so hot if elbows are involved. its a last ditch sort of thing anyway- if you are in this situation its because you were standing too far away or had your head hunched too far forwards.

    THE VIDEO
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http:...?v=PV6UkIRTGT4

    (if that doesnt work- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV6UkIRTGT4)

    ok i cut this into 3 parts.

    part 1- this is the first round right at the beginning. clinching with someone actually shorter than me was a new experience and i ended up getting clocked in the head a few times because of that, but because my arms were locking his shoulders there was nil power in them. notice how i let him swing me around the ring. i could hear the guy grunting and **** doing that and really it served him in no way. also notice how he is just throwing as many knees and punches as he can while im lining up the straight shots to the midsection because that is whats gonna hurt. i should have left in the bit where he threw me now that i think about it because that was another example of using a lot of energy with very little result. ring floors arent that hard :D

    part 2- right at the start he basically tries to rugby tackle me into the ropes after he cant get past my grip. so, i let him. then bounce off and let him do it again and again. whats happening here is im using no force at all while he is using a lot of strength to basically push a dead weight into the rope over and over. he also starts using knees to the legs which im a big fan of- but they dont work against someone who isnt coming in.

    part 3- the other guy is pretty fucked at this stage so i ramp it up a bit in the clinch. the big mistake he makes here is that while he is using a waist clinch, which is a good idea of you are being beaten in the clinch, he is leaving his ass hanging way out backwards. which gives me just enough room to continually throw short straight knees up the middle even while he is pushing me around. if he had kept closer to me this would not have been possible.

    so that is, basically, the limpet clinching method. the ideas are to piss off the other guy by not getting into a test of strength and simply letting him do what he wants. if he wants to swing you around fine, if he wants to charge you into a corner fine. because when he has finished doing that its going to come down to who is the more technical striker in the clinch. and if you are fresh and he isnt, then your technique will be much sharper. in the video im using it on a guy smaller than me but i regularly spar for 20+ minutes with guys who have at least 20 or so kg on me without feeling knackered by the end, even though they are gasping for air.

    of course it isnt perfect, there are ways to capitalise on someone who does this. you have to be very aware of what the other person is doing and you have to have good defensive clinching technique, because otherwise they are going to swing you around and impale you on a knee. a lot of it is keeping very relaxed and using your body movement to absorb the impact and it took me fucking ages before i could do this effectively- before that i just went home with a lot of bruises, but i knew it would work after a while. if you dont have the ability to read what the other guy is doing then this will not work for you, at all. and its pretty much specific to a ring- letting someone charge you into a corner isnt such a hot idea if the corner is a brick wall.

    theres a million other little things i thought of while writing this so if you have any queries then please ask, i dont want to turn this into a tl:dr post.
    Last edited by alex; 11/20/2006 4:30am at .
  2. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 5:30am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I was training striking, I'd definitely be reading that more thoroughly.

    As it is, good work for putting in the effort there with the long write up and the videos and everything. Nice one.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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  3. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 11:38am


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah good show
  4. smillard is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 12:40pm


     Style: BJJ/boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very good post first off and I have a couple of questions. First when you go in for the clinch what is the position of your arms?
    1. Are you going in forearms parallell to their body and flowing into the clinch or do you shoot in and basically slam your forearms into their clavicle to apply the hold?

    2. When applying the clinch you mentioned keeping your elbows in the nitch between the pecs and shoulders. When I've done this in the past I have no problem maintaining control on people smaller and the same size as me and it is a fairly low effort hold. When I have gone against larger people I have a problem with them muscling out of the clinch. I've been instructed to basically crank my elbows in like I'm doing a pec deck excersice. Now this works like a charm on everyone but, I feel I'm now open to uppercuts and this form wears the hell out of me. Is there a happy medium or am I missing something?

    Thanks
  5. Odacon is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 1:47pm

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     Style: Bits and pieces

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some nice tips there, I'll definitely be trying the elbows and hand postitions you mentioned in the clinch.
  6. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 2:57pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by smillard
    Very good post first off and I have a couple of questions. First when you go in for the clinch what is the position of your arms?
    1. Are you going in forearms parallell to their body and flowing into the clinch or do you shoot in and basically slam your forearms into their clavicle to apply the hold?
    i try to work my way forward so we are close and then shoot my hands in from there. im not a big fan of clinching from far out because its a good way to get an uppercut in the mouf if the other guy is onto it

    2. When applying the clinch you mentioned keeping your elbows in the nitch between the pecs and shoulders. When I've done this in the past I have no problem maintaining control on people smaller and the same size as me and it is a fairly low effort hold. When I have gone against larger people I have a problem with them muscling out of the clinch. I've been instructed to basically crank my elbows in like I'm doing a pec deck excersice. Now this works like a charm on everyone but, I feel I'm now open to uppercuts and this form wears the hell out of me. Is there a happy medium or am I missing something?

    Thanks
    i would say instead of cranking your elbows inwards they should be only pushing forwards while your hands pull inwards, sort of like you are doing a barbell bicep curl (this is where the shitloads of pull ups you should be doing come in handy ;))

    try and keep your head as close as you can to theirs, i keep mine on the side if i can. this means if they do break it you arent likely to get an uppercut in the mouth
  7. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 4:55pm


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    alex are you an aspiring muay thai instructor?
  8. smillard is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 5:36pm


     Style: BJJ/boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alex, thanks for the answer. I agree with the tucking your head in, found that one out very quick. Will increase the pull ups and now I don't have to do a **** load of cable flys anymore. I also agree about going for the clinch too far out. I try to work into it from medium range punches and elbows. Anyway, I'll pick on a big boy tonight and try it. Thanks
  9. feral is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 5:46pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nice article, my clinchwork needs help against the bigger n stronger guys, i'll try to use yer advice.

    One tip that my instructor gave, even though its kinda evil, he said you should just dig yer chin in real hard against yer opponent during a clinch. (obviously don't try to do this before you are good and clinched-- its not a flying chin attack)
  10. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 5:57pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i dont really believe theres anything dirty about using your head as a weapon in the clinch (well as long as you arent smashing your head into them) i mean we do a lot of work on using your head to break a clinch, such as going for a waist clinch, getting your head under theirs, and then forcing your whole body up. people tend to let go when you do that.

    axel- maybe some day, when im too old and to fight and have to send someone else to do it for me :D
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