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  1. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/26/2010 10:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quick one for the macp people. Wached human weapon where they do a rolling knee bar from a rear grab. Do you guys actually train that one? And if so why?

    For me if you are going to promite the deadly over the sport, squirrel gripping somone who is grabbing you from behind just seems the easier option.

    It almost seems that they travel too far into the technical world of grappling to be used by the smash kill crowd (simplicity). But not far enough to make anybody really good.

    edit. sorry I really hate the way I have written this. Words are just not coming out today
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 11/26/2010 11:14am at .
  2. Pemp is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/26/2010 12:59pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MCMAP/COMBATIVES

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Quick one for the macp people. Wached human weapon where they do a rolling knee bar from a rear grab. Do you guys actually train that one? And if so why?

    For me if you are going to promite the deadly over the sport, squirrel gripping somone who is grabbing you from behind just seems the easier option.

    It almost seems that they travel too far into the technical world of grappling to be used by the smash kill crowd (simplicity). But not far enough to make anybody really good.
    I think that was the MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) episode. I have trained that move and it is a black belt move. Your right it isn't an ideal move in this position, I've been out of the Marine Corps for about 3 years now and I know they have changed many things within the program and I hope this is one of the moves that they have dropped.

    IMO a better technique in that situation would be the counter to 'Bearhug from Behind with arms free' found on page 136 of 'Complete Krav Maga' (for those that don't have the book, the defender drops their weight and begins delivering elbows to the head until the attacker allows enough space for the defender to turn around and to continue attacking) or any other technique that didn't take you to the ground (I know that BJJ has several counters that could be ideal as well.)
  3. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2010 12:31am


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pemp View Post
    IMO a better technique in that situation would be the counter to 'Bearhug from Behind with arms free' found on page 136 of 'Complete Krav Maga' (for those that don't have the book, the defender drops their weight and begins delivering elbows to the head until the attacker allows enough space for the defender to turn around and to continue attacking) or any other technique that didn't take you to the ground (I know that BJJ has several counters that could be ideal as well.)
    If I'm ever at the bookstore and feel in the mood for some comedy I'll know what book to look at.
  4. Axe1314 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2010 11:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    seriously is anyone surprised that basic military hand to hand is not that good? I am always reminded of the book 'Angry White Pajamas' about the sensushei aikido course. At the end of it all the author asked the riot police if they would ever use the high level aikido they had trained in, they pointed to their Glocks. I am sure a well trained grappler/judoka/mma-ist could take the average marine sans weapons, but I know who I want defending my freedom with appropriate technology!!
  5. gregaquaman is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2010 2:25am

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     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Axe1314 View Post
    seriously is anyone surprised that basic military hand to hand is not that good? I am always reminded of the book 'Angry White Pajamas' about the sensushei aikido course. At the end of it all the author asked the riot police if they would ever use the high level aikido they had trained in, they pointed to their Glocks. I am sure a well trained grappler/judoka/mma-ist could take the average marine sans weapons, but I know who I want defending my freedom with appropriate technology!!
    I think talking about the SAS is going a bit off topic.
  6. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2010 4:00am


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pemp View Post
    I think that was the MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) episode. I have trained that move and it is a black belt move. Your right it isn't an ideal move in this position, I've been out of the Marine Corps for about 3 years now and I know they have changed many things within the program and I hope this is one of the moves that they have dropped.

    IMO a better technique in that situation would be the counter to 'Bearhug from Behind with arms free' found on page 136 of 'Complete Krav Maga' (for those that don't have the book, the defender drops their weight and begins delivering elbows to the head until the attacker allows enough space for the defender to turn around and to continue attacking) or any other technique that didn't take you to the ground (I know that BJJ has several counters that could be ideal as well.)
    Surely the mechanically efficient and simple movements found in wrestling, where rear bodylocks are common, would be a good replacement.

    Such as found in this video at :10 in: YouTube - Kazushi Sakuraba Techniques - 01 - kimura Sakuraba follows that up with a submission attack, but you could as easily do a switch and turn to face your opponent and fight as normal from there.

    Or this, at 2:50 in: YouTube - yoko guruma Soto makikomi Uchi makikomi Hane makikomi Harai makikomi Uchimata makikomi
    Soto Makikomi from Judo.
  7. Pemp is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2010 9:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MCMAP/COMBATIVES

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation View Post
    Surely the mechanically efficient and simple movements found in wrestling, where rear bodylocks are common, would be a good replacement.

    Such as found in this video at :10 in: YouTube - Kazushi Sakuraba Techniques - 01 - kimura Sakuraba follows that up with a submission attack, but you could as easily do a switch and turn to face your opponent and fight as normal from there.
    Good videos! I def think the first video's technique is a great move and alternative to the rolling knee bar. However, I wouldn't use the second video's technique(for MCMAP) because it still goes to the ground just like the rolling knee bar.
  8. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2010 10:34am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Im interested as to how people actually get the rolling kneebar from rear bodylock consistently. It's only ever happened to me when I've been careless or gripped too low.
    "The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero projects his fear onto his opponent while the coward runs. 'Fear'. It's the same thing, but it's what you do with it that matters". - Cus D'Amato
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  9. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2010 12:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rezonator939 View Post
    I'm currently in the Army and this is my biggest beef with MACP. I've posted
    this video before, but I'm going to post it here as it's relevant to this thread:

    YouTube - Army Combatives Level 1 - Part 01

    Start watching from 7:00 and you'll see everything that's wrong with Modern Army Combatives.

    That being said, this is only Level 1. It supposedly gets better at higher levels (I'm only Level 1, so I can't say for sure). I like the idea of the clinch drill (a.k.a. Punch Day), but even that is getting watered down in some places. I also never understood why it's a clinch drill and not a takedown drill; since Level 1 is all about fighting on the ground, I think the clinch drill should be focused on putting an attacker on the ground where you can put your training to work.

    MACP did motivate me to sign up at a BJJ school (because I got tired of learning stuff that didn't work), so it was a positive training experience in a way.
    *sigh*
    Its always fun to hear how Lvl 1 know what wrong with MACP and have only did lvl 1.

    FYI There is a reason the old Gracie Guard Pass (aka Gracie Gift) is taught at Lvl 1. It basically contains a lot of elements you need for a good guard pass. You may not use the pass exactly like that but you will you many elements in it depending on whats going on.

    Again Lvl 1 is basic. The Clinch drill is designed to get people used to being in a fight. Keep in mind the vast majority of the soldiers out there haven't been in a fight period. Many never been hit, ever. Its there to instill confidence that they can take a hit.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

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    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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