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  1. Don Gwinn is online now
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2007 11:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So you would still describe Keichu Do as both "original" and "not new?" There's no way around it, that's a null statement.

    I don't like frauds. If Marx is not a fraud, I'm probably OK with him. If he's a fraud, then I dislike him. I don't have the energy to hate very many people.

    When Marx makes claims that are easily checked with official sources, and then those claims turn out not to be true, that's fraudulent, but also insulting.

    You're the second person this week to accuse me of hating people I don't know because I ask for evidence instead of accepting claims. There's a huge difference in the way we view the world, I guess. I don't find anything posted in this thread hateful. It is not hateful to think critically. It is not hateful to ask questions, and it is not hateful to verify claims.

    It is not hateful to demand extraordinary evidence to support extraordinary claims. It is in fact faithful adherence to the fundamental tenets of rational discourse.
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  2. Don Gwinn is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 12:12am

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     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would, however, submit to you that Marx's parents probably hated him with a deep and irrational passion. I don't know how else to explain his name.
    *********************************************
  3. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 12:19am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The attitudes that come through in the postings suggest little or no honor
    Claiming you have a doctoral degree in something when you actually don't seems far less honorable than investigating said claim.

    those who are so adamant in their attempts to deconstuct K. Marx and/or Keichu have not been training in/training for long in systems that teach humility & honor
    I don't know about my martial arts, but my education taught me not to believe everything I read and to investigate topics to the best of my ability. After reading all of Marx's books and all of his postings in the Grace Martial Arts newsletter, I think I have a fairly good grasp on what Marx has to say on martial arts and other matters.

    Such as his claims that he can heal by touch:

    P. 93-4

    Remember, Mark, the strange talent with which I, Phil, and others with the gift to rebuild the nervous system, relieve the pressures and tensions, and correct ailments by is energizing the Holy Spirit. We accomplish this by placing our fingers over nerves and nerve relay centers, automatically generating the energy or Ki complementary to that of the patient.

    [skip]

    Some people ask, "Why doesn't everyone know about this revolutionary new method of treating physical and mental disorders?" But, Mark, the answer is that it is not a new revolutionary method. It is as old as the world. It is simply a lost art to many. The Bible records that some people in ancient days, and some in the New Testament had the understanding and wisdom of healing through the laying of one's hands... The power that passes through my hands resides in everyone.

    Or his theories on ki:

    From birth to adolescence, the body receives nerve fuel (chi) by radiation from G-d...
    Or his belief that the common cold, pulmonary tuberculosis, and multiple sclerosis are "usually psychosomatic in origin, and that mononucleosis is:

    "a condition resulting from emotional repression and sexual starvation [in adolescence] (p. 97)"

    All of these and more are found in his book "Martial Arts Spirit."

    --------------------

    I could spend a great deal of my time debating particular merits and issues with Karl Marx or Keichu-Do/Keichu-Ryu. However, given your appearance and stated ability to substantiate claims made by Karl W. Marx concerning Keichu-Do (particularly a ceremony concerning its coronation as the "Official martial art of Louisiana"), I am most interested in this area. I have a strong interest in putting out information with factual accuracy and the greatest attention to investigative rigor.

    If it is helpful for you, the date of "Keichu Day" was reportedly July 30, 1997. This is according to Action Martial Arts Magazine, May/June 1997 issue.

    The Louisiana Purchase of 1803, the Baldycypress Bayou Swamp, the origination of Tabasco Sauce in 1868, Louie Armstrong's New Orleans jazz, Mardis Gras, and the folklore of the descendants of French settlers from the Acadia region of eastern Canada, called Cajuns--it's all there on display in the Louisiana State Archives as part of America's national heritage. And now, those archives are about to receive the history and memorabilia of an indigenous, homespun, Cajun-American self-defense system called Keichu-Do Karate. That's right, July 30, 1997 has been declared Keichu Day in Louisiana . Enter Soke (founder) Karl Marx."
  4. Don Gwinn is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 1:04am

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     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow. . . . . I was not aware of the medical claims. That is fascinating reading.

    OK, Fran, I guess you win this one. I don't like Marx. Faith healers who scam ill people people by claiming to be able to heal by the laying on of hands are frauds, and we've already been over my opinion of frauds.

    Unless perhaps Dr. Marx has recanted or denied those claims?
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  5. franp is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 2:19am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: tae kwon do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don,

    I don't know who posted that they didn't know about K. Marx's claim to heal by the laying on of hands, but I agree. I didn't know about that either. I will contact him to see if he still makes this claim, or if he has repudiated it in recent years.

    Our education is similar, in that we were both taught not to believe all that we read before a thorough investigation. Amen!

    By the way, I didn't accuse you or anyone else of hating. Must have me confused with someone else.

    The frauds are many. Currently there is one who really bothers me a lot. He is an older martial artist whose past claims have been exposed. But he continues to propogate them. Those around him shrug it off as the rantings of an older man (in his 70's) who has had 3 strokes.

    He claims to have been a POW (Korea as I recall), as well as a Congressional Medal of Honor winner. The medal is easy to refute. His name doesn't appear on the official government records of Medal of Hhonor recipients. There is a lot of evidence to refute his POW claim. If those around him were honorable, they would at least edit his resume, and advise him not to accept awards based on those false military records. (Just recently again.)

    His lies have caused much hurt to parents of soldiers now involved in the war, after they award him for his alleged military background, then find out it was all a lie.

    If it is truth in the arts you like to achieve, you might start with this man. I would guess you know of whom I speak.

    But I digress. Back to Keichu. By "not new" but "original" I mean this. Most systems have similar techniques, along with their peculiar specialties. The way in which the whole is packaged is what makes each system unique or original. Keichu is like that. It does have some unique features. Not "new" in the sense that they have never before been practiced, but original in the packaging. They might not be the "best" techniques, or even as good (effective) as similar techniques in other arts. But I don't see them as being "stolen" from other arts either.

    Have a good night.
  6. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 9:59am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dear Franp

    If you know of a martial artist who has falsely claimed a medal of honor I would be happy to look into their claims and publicize their misdeeds. What I need is 1) A written source where they have claimed in print that they have earned such a medal. or.

    Two people who are willing to provide affidavits that they were told verbally by said person that he earned a medal of honor. I will help them draft these affidavits. Please indicate if you are interested.
  7. franp is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 12:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: tae kwon do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Samuel,
    I am currently helping the parents of a soldier (serving in Iraq) who are interested in doing an expose of this man. I will wait until I get more source evidence, and their permission before passing it along to you. Thanks for the offer of assistance.
  8. FreeSpeech is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 8:36pm


     Style: Keichu-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!




    They are date stamped and the year 1997 is easily made out. I did not take them, though I was a student of Keichu at the time I was not there for the event. These pictures were sent to me and the way they appear is how they came out of the email.

    On the first set I believe, though it may be the second you will notice a picture of a tournament. It was a seperate reason that, that photo was sent. The individuals judgeing are; from top to bottom (or if the image was right side up left to right.):

    Grandmaster Marx, GM John Pachivas, deceased and GM Robert Trais, deceased Bob Bowles? I think. This is the World Championships in Houston Texas.

    As to the request to furnish the name of the individual who helped me. I only recieved the last persons name and not the two individuals prior to the last. I will not give their name. It is a matter of public record and access. I have been around physical security protocol (I am not sure that is spelled right) to long and it is habitual not to give out information I do not have to give out. I will tell you though that all you have to do is contact the State Archive, and not the Library of Referance, to find out whether or not there is a State Archive for Keichu-Do and all that may entail. I have not received the information that I requested as of yet, but then agian it is the weekend and I do not work on weekend so I do not expect others to.
  9. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 9:05pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Free Speech,

    Thank you for the pictures.

    However, Steven has revealed the full name of his official source of information regarding whether there was an official Keichu-Do day in Louisiana. You are being a hypocrite by challenging his work and questioning his integrity and not providing the same information regarding who at the State Archive, if anyone, told you that there was indeed such an official day in Louisiana.

    Secondly we are not discussing some covert or clandestine operation by the United States government so reveal your source and stop playing games. "Physical security protocol" is a ridiculous excuse. Your "habits" don't matter unless you are tendering some sort of diminished capacity claim which I would hope you would not stoop to. We are talking about a conversation you had with a public servant. I am sure you are deeply offended that we have questioned the existance of an official "Keichu Day" so reveal the name of the public servant at the archives who can contradict Steven's named source.

    Finally just because Marx donated some papers to the state archives does not mean that the state legislature created a state martial art or recognized July 30, 1997 as Keichu Day. Not just at this particular building but "in Louisiana".
  10. BSDaemon is offline
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    Being Sublime Daily

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    Posted On:
    2/25/2007 9:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Recieved January 19th from Karl Marx
    Mr [BSDaemon].


    Well son you were right. I just received information from Greece that the fellow who was supposed to defend my dissertation for me was a unscrupulous individual. The Diploma from The International University was as it appears also a diploma mill. The one good thing out of all this is that none of it cost me any money. I owe you my most profound apologies, and also to Bullshido as well. I am not a fraud, knowingly at least. Naive for sure but my Keichu styl e is real. All the hoopharay about that issue was totally uncalled for, and I will clear that up directly. So I'm not a Phd. I can accept that I was made a fool of. I can live with that. As for the other comments by Bullshido concerning Keichu and why do we wear traditional uniforms, and resemble other styles, that's defensible if some one had the decency to ask me personally.

    There are many to fast talking accusers on Bullshido with no manners, not enough research, and very little respect. You young man I must say were a gentleman, and I applaud you for that. It's ironic, when I first started Keichu we were condemned because we were not a traditional style we were a mixed Martial Art. Now we are ridiculed because some people think we are just Karate. By the way I didn't make up the name Soke. It was bestowed on me by people I thought knew what they were doing. I was one of only 20 candidates that applied for me mbership out of as they said over 3000 applicants.

    Just me mister nobody
    Karl William Marx Sr.
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