Keichu Do - Part Two: Questions for Marx or KD Students

**cajunlopez** · Posted On: 11/03/2006 11:58pm

Samuel,
I am not here to discuss Mr. Marx background in any way. I will, however, discuss anything pertaining to Keichu-Do, BJJ, or MMA. Please keep in mind that I am from a "new generation" of Keichu, under Victor Marx. Many of the techniques of Keichu have been refined over the years, and my BJJ training is highly influencial in my Karate teaching.

**FreeSpeech** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 1:05pm

Samurai Steve you will receive a response from Soke soon. I do not think that he checks that e-mail address. So I have sent it on to him. He was not ignoreing you. If you have any further questions for Soke you can ask me, through my email which should be on this site if not PM me and I will give it to you.

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 1:44pm

Originally Posted by cajunlopez

Samuel,
I am not here to discuss Mr. Marx background in any way. I will, however, discuss anything pertaining to Keichu-Do, BJJ, or MMA. Please keep in mind that I am from a "new generation" of Keichu, under Victor Marx. Many of the techniques of Keichu have been refined over the years, and my BJJ training is highly influencial in my Karate teaching.

See post #9 for my question about the gator roll, you could always compare it to what you teach in BJJ.

**Judah Maccabee** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 1:44pm

FS,

Soke Victor Marx already got in contact with me on his Dad's behalf. He was gracious and forthcoming about a majority of the things written here.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 2:28pm

Originally Posted by cajunlopez

Samuel,
I am not here to discuss Mr. Marx background in any way. I will, however, discuss anything pertaining to Keichu-Do, BJJ, or MMA. Please keep in mind that I am from a "new generation" of Keichu, under Victor Marx. Many of the techniques of Keichu have been refined over the years, and my BJJ training is highly influencial in my Karate teaching.

If I may interject, what characterizes this "new generation" as such? What are you doing different from the "old generation" and which schools and instructors belong to which generation?

**FreeSpeech** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 2:42pm

S.S

There were a few questions on the list that left me wondering why they were asked, and what point does asking them serve? For instance, why ask questions 16 or 25?

**Judah Maccabee** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 2:48pm

16 was asked because it was mentioned in an article on Marx and Keichu-do, along with a mention he was distantly related to the Communist Karl H. Marx.

25 was asked because it can be corroborated with legal records to establish or disprove the history that Marx provides in his writings, same as question 2. If Karl W. Marx claims a criminal record or extensive history of divorce, it could be established by the legal record.

**FreeSpeech** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 3:49pm

Originally Posted by Samurai Steve

16 was asked because it was mentioned in an article on Marx and Keichu-do, along with a mention he was distantly related to the Communist Karl H. Marx.

25 was asked because it can be corroborated with legal records to establish or disprove the history that Marx provides in his writings, same as question 2. If Karl W. Marx claims a criminal record or extensive history of divorce, it could be established by the legal record.

Thank you. I do not remember any reference to Judism but I do remember the reference to the Communist.

But if they are pertaining to the same thing why bring them up as seperate issues. Unless you wanted to make sure that you got answers to the individual areas.

Agian thank you.

**Judah Maccabee** · Posted On: 11/04/2006 3:52pm

The topics were brought up separately. The article indicated he was of Cajun/German/Judaic descent. That's a fairly odd mix. Not too many Cajun Jews running around.

**cajunlopez** · Posted On: 11/06/2006 12:30am

Originally Posted by JohnnyCache

If I may interject, what characterizes this "new generation" as such? What are you doing different from the "old generation" and which schools and instructors belong to which generation?

When referring to myself as being from the "new generation", I was infering to the way I view traitional Martial Arts. I am not of the Karl Marx generation of fighters that strictly adhered to their particular art form.
Everything from tournaments, to sparring equipment, to the difference between teaching children, and adults has evolved in one way or another. I am not implying that I have altered the art form of Keichu-Do in any way. It is not my place to do that. However, I am from a generation that has seen the myths of many traditional arts shattered by the advent of MMA via Royce Gracie in the original UFC's. I know that if I am to do my students justice, I have to teach them how to defend themselves from any possible situation, and in this "new generation" many would be assailants no longer respect the authority, or the mystique of traditional martial arts.

Before I continue, it is extremely important that you understand the demographic that I am referring to. In my school there are the children. It is my duty to teach them how to live their lives with the integrity and humility that is expected of a Christian, as well as how to appropriately defend themselves from bullies and strangers.
Next I have my working class adults who want to either get into shape, lose weight, learn self defense, meet new people, etc.... These adults are not interested in becoming pro fighters. They want a recreational activity that will possitively alter their lifestyle, and create a new lifestyle full of confidence, and courage. Keichu-Do is a great medium in which to accomplish this.
Finally, I have my "knuckle draggers". Guys who want to learn how to FIGHT. These students are taught Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and Thai Boxing. They may have asperations to one day step into a cage, and it's my job to shatter those dreams and rebuild them once they are grounded in reality. They have to be at least a BLUE BELT in BJJ and have at least 9 months of Thai boxing if they want to step into a cage with my blessing. I DO NOT TEACH THESE GUYS KEICH-DO. As an art form, it does not fit the role of what they are looking for.

To sum it up: Keichu-Do Karate- children and adults who want to be better people, and accomplish great things through the discipline learned in Keichu-Do. Everything that I teach in Keichu- Do has been time tested and is very valid in it's application (which may not always be for the street). Does this mean that it is the perfect art? No. Every art has it's strengths and weaknesses. However, because I subscribe to this "new generation" way of thinking, I have the freedom to interject my knowledge of BJJ, Thai boxing, and MMA into the gaps that I may find in Keichu-Do. I am not setting my Keichu students up for failure with unrealistic expectations from "traditional moves". They are learning those moves which many may say are "ineffective on the street" in just that context. Lets face it. If I don't have the courage to look my students in the eyes and tell them that a particular move is required by curriculum, but is ineffective in reality because of the way human perception of the Martial Arts is evolving, then I need to hang up my Black Belt and teach no more. However, my "new generation" way of thinking and training takes it one step further, and fills in the gaps with an alternetive move (in addition to the one they already know) that may not be in the Keichu curriculum, but is a reality based technique.
I like to think that because of my own personal experience as a traditional martial artist, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu brown belt, aspiring Thai boxer, and Pro MMA fighter (3-0 record) I can offer a fresh perspective on what works and what doesn't, and my students will learn the same.

Find anyone who agrees with me and I say "Welcome to the New Generation of Martial Artists"