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  1. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 9:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by over view of whole conversation
    Quote Originally Posted by what you are agreeing to

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevehm
    But it doesn't change the fact that Karl W. Marx is by far a better person than many of us ever hope to be. That is a fact!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    I fail to see how this a fact and seems to be one of the problems encountered often in this investigation ... a lot of personal opinion has been and still is being presented as fact .
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevehm
    Exactly. Now you've got it!!!
    Yes I understand that the supporters of Keichu Do have been presenting personal opinion as fact since the very beginning .

    I hope you understand that and see how it is hurting your position .
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 2/26/2007 9:39pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  2. Stevehm is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 9:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Keichu-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Yes I understand that the supporters of Keichu Do have been presenting personal opinion as fact since the very beginning .

    I hope you understand that and see how it is hurting your position .
    It's not helping your's either. So, as I said before, give it a rest.
  3. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 9:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevehm
    It's not helping your's either. So, as I said before, give it a rest.
    My position is one of curiosity . Why would you try to purposely muddy the waters ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  4. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 9:58pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevehm
    Hey, whatever works! The facts are however, that you people are on a witch hunt. Whether you have the facts or not is irrelevant, because all you're truly interested in is destroying a truly remarkable man who just doesn't happen to fit into your idea of whatever is right.

    Was he duped about the Ph.D.? Sure. Was the research in "Martial Arts Therapy" dated? Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that Karl W. Marx is by far a better person than many of us ever hope to be. That is a fact!
    I am skeptical that he was "duped". Did he not go over to Greece to talk to the people from whom he received his "Ph.D"?, having received an MA in America, did he not notice that this program had much lower standards?

    Gee, I want to earn a Ph.D., time to find an overseas program where I don't have to fulfill any residency requirements.

    Thats not the way legitimate academic programs work. Typically you have to put in more then a year on campus and 30-60 credits before beginning your Ph.D Thesis.
    The program was questionable to begin with, and I believe Marx would have been intelligent enought to spot that.
  5. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 10:05pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevehm
    I'm NOT trivializing anything! I'm merely pointing out that the same hysteria that caused the witch trials to happen is the same hysteria that is driving this "investigation". Just because evidence has not come up as yet to fully show you that Keichu-Do is the "official" martial art of Lousiana, doesn't make it any less so. Just because it hasn't been passed by state statute doesn't make it any less so either. I've seen many a time when there have been such things from an honory standpoint. Is it possible this is anything less? I don't know because I wasn't there for the ceremony anymore than you were.

    Since you don't know me, you cannot possibily begin to make accurate accusations of what my intent was, so kindly keep insensitive comments like that to yourself! Destroying someone's reputation IS ruining their lives. That's why slander suits are in the courts all of the time.
    Yup, we're insensitive and proud of it, but you are now attempting to mix the words official and honorary. To be Official a state flower or martial art requires state sanction, and Keichu-Do does not have such a state sanction. The word honorary was never used by Mr. Marx. You might also want to look at the last sentence of your above post counselor there is a rather noticable legal error.
  6. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/26/2007 10:09pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another attendee to the party. Welcome to Bullshido!

    ========

    this is a lot like the witch trials in Salem, MA
    No, not really.

    if only we could turn our attention to the problem of the safety of our food supply and other such miniscule details that face our country today
    You apparently missed my posts on the hazards of factory food production, as described in "Fast Food Nation" and "The Way we Eat."


    The facts are however, that you people are on a witch hunt.
    I resent your ad hominem, and it is completely out of place for sensible discourse. A witch hunt is a pursuit regardless of facts. This is an investigation involving every piece of writing Marx has done, excepting his work on "The Warrior's Bible" that FranP was an editor of. Marx has made outrageous claims concerning his status as "Father of American Karate" and the origin of mental illness, among other things. Investigating such claims is fully within the purview of intellectual pursuits.

    Was the research in "Martial Arts Therapy" dated? Sure.
    Not only was it dated, at no point on the Amazon page or other places did it indicate that:

    1. The book was a verbatim reprint of a doctoral thesis.
    2. The book was basically written in 1979, not 2005.
    3. Marx hadn't bothered to update his writing as he updated his book "Martial Arts Spirit."

    Was he duped about the Ph.D.? Sure.
    Forgive my Cajun French, but you have to be pretty fucking slow-witted to spend effort pursuing an unaccredited Ph.D. Especially one that does not involve defending your thesis in person or conducting a significant amount of original research. I would expect someone with a "confirmed IQ of 185" to avoid that sort of pitfall. Based on the response by his son and my own investigations, I think Marx tried to take a shortcut to glory by taking his Master's Degree work and shuttling it to a diploma mill so he could be called "Doctor" on top of "Soke" and "Reverend."

    But it doesn't change the fact that Karl W. Marx is by far a better person than many of us ever hope to be.
    My investigation, and this website, aren't particularly interested in Marx's moral character except in instances where such moral character plays a role in his claims or statements. For example, saying he killed a man overseas and punched out a superior officer while in the Navy.

    supposedly caring individuals on this site are ripping apart people's reputations
    I never made any statement I was "caring"; I stated that I was honest and open to amending my conclusions and beliefs based on evidence presented to the contrary. The only reputations ripped apart are those which have been founded on an unsteady base of half-truths, falsehoods, and the like.

    same hysteria that caused the witch trials to happen is the same hysteria that is driving this "investigation".
    This is utter horse-apples.

    Just because evidence has not come up as yet to fully show you that Keichu-Do is the "official" martial art of Lousiana, doesn't make it any less so.
    Hmmmmm, who would know what is "official" in the state of Louisiana? Oh yeah, state officials! Especially the state official who MAKES THE LIST OF OFFICIAL STATE ICONS EVERY YEAR. And that official says there is no official martial art of Louisiana, much less Keichu-Do.

    when there have been such things from an honory(SIC) standpoint
    Oh, so now it's HONORARY? An HONORARY award is not the same thing as an OFFICIAL award.


    =======

    At this point in time, I am uninterested in further discussion unless there is serious, solid evidence that contradicts the findings of my investigation.
  7. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 5:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just because it hasn't been passed by state statute doesn't make it any less so either.
    See, that's the thing--according to the Louisiana State Archives, it DOES make it less so. It would be the same in Illinois. You might recall that last year the legislature looked into changing the "State Snack of Illinois." It took an act of the legislature to do it.
    (And hey, we were only a few tens of billions out of financial control at that point, so what the heck? They had nothing better to do.)

    Where will the Illinois school be located? How soon are we talking here?
    *********************************************
  8. kohadril is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 6:27pm


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We're not talking here about absence of evidence. The lack of any Louisiana statute declaring an official martial art is real evidence that the claim in question is untrue. It's not absolute proof, but asking us to prove a negative is a pretty absurd request. The fact is, the statement "Keichu-do is the official martial art of the state of Louisiana" has failed a critical test of its veracity.

    As to the possibility that the award was "honorary." I agree with the posters above who consider this a pretty bald shift in claims; official and honorary are not commensurate. However, even an honorary state martial art would have to be recognized by some non-statutory legislative resolution.

    Using the very same website I linked above (the Louisiana state legislature) I did a full text measure search of all bills and resolutions passed during the 1997 regular legislative session. I searched for the term "honorary," and found 12 instruments (bills/resolutions/concurrent resolutions/joint resolutions are collectively called "instruments"). Many express condolences about people who died, none even so much as refer to the martial arts, keichu-do or anything of note to this thread. I'd address them all here, but 12 is a bit much. You can do the search yourself if you like.

    A second full text measure search of the same session, conducted with the search term "martial art" returned too many results to examine, because "art" was too common a word. "Martial," by itself, returned just three: HB 450, which respects weightlifting equipment for inmates; HB 756, respecting covenant marriages; and HB 1370, respecting military affairs and appeals to the First Circuit Court of Appeals.

    Short of some massive, pervasive, and remarkably specific error on the part of both Louisiana's electronically accessible revised statutes and their State Archive, Keichu-Do is unambiguously not the state martial art of Louisiana. But even an honorary designation would have required a legislative instrument, and that too appears nonexistent.

    Once again, I linked the website in an earlier post. What the hell, here it is again: http://www.legis.state.la.us/. I have also carefully put forward my methodology and my search terms for replicability and further investigation. And all of that pales in comparison to the scrupulous listing of contacts and references Judah Maccabee provided for his investigation. Keichu-Do advocates have yet to provide anything rising even to my level of diligence, much less JM's.
  9. Don Gwinn is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/27/2007 8:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    . . . . all of which is spectacularly unimportant by comparison if it turns out Marx is out there advocating faith healing and telling people that their chi caused their mental illness. I hope some of Mr. Marx's devoted students are even now asking him what he thinks on that subject.
    *********************************************
  10. Shiseiryu1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2008 1:23am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shisei Ryu Aikibudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I have some answers

    As stated on some other threads I go back a long time in KD to 72 ws the first of three 6th Dans in the art....in 92......

    NOt much time now...but can do your list later.....I can speak frankly...I was there...
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