Spartan Gym Phony Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Blackbelt Claim

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 11/01/2006 10:51am

Originally Posted by Phrost

JJGear's forum deserve some props for catching these guys early on and at least starting to deal with them. It's only when one of their own pulls some bullshit that things break down (selling "dark blue" belts for example).

They may in fact know something you don't, like the actual standards and ability of the people that get the lame "instructor's blue" or whatever it is.

**Phrost** · Posted On: 11/01/2006 11:04am

I'm not sure what you mean. The "instructor's blue" was to be given out to people who purchased a video training course so the could teach BJJ at their McDojo. Unless you have some information I don't.

How quality of instuction can be assured by mail order is beyond me.

**ojgsxr6** · Posted On: 11/01/2006 11:12am

The instructor blue with a red stripe is supposedly old school BJJ way of showing that you're an instructor but not a black belt. At the Kioto schools in on Long Island, in order to get the instructor blue you have to be at least a blue belt, take the instructor course, and continue to take BJJ instruction, if you stop then your no longer certified to be an instructor.

**Phrost** · Posted On: 11/01/2006 11:21am

Originally Posted by ojgsxr6

The instructor blue with a red stripe is supposedly old school BJJ way of showing that you're an instructor but not a black belt. At the Kioto schools in on Long Island, in order to get the instructor blue you have to be at least a blue belt, take the instructor course, and continue to take BJJ instruction, if you stop then your no longer certified to be an instructor.

We (or at least I am) talking about a recent "Teach BJJ At Your School" video course that included an instructor blue and was defended by some of the guys on JJGear's forum.

**Spezza** · Posted On: 11/01/2006 2:08pm

"We (or at least I am) talking about a recent "Teach BJJ At Your School" video course that included an instructor blue and was defended by some of the guys on JJGear's forum.

That was Jerry Laurita's program.

Jerry is a Black belt under Joe Moreira. (Suprise)

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 11/01/2006 3:18pm

Originally Posted by Spezza

"We (or at least I am) talking about a recent "Teach BJJ At Your School" video course that included an instructor blue and was defended by some of the guys on JJGear's forum.

That was Jerry Laurita's program.

Jerry is a Black belt under Joe Moreira. (Suprise)

Can you provide additional information on that? Something fishy about Joe Moreira that I missed out on?

**Spezza** · Posted On: 11/02/2006 12:48am

Well, there are a few "questionable" Joe M. Black Belts out there. Joe got his black belt from Reylson Gracie, THE biggest fraud in the Gracie family (just check Reylson's Las Vegas school's website if you don't believe that). Often when there is some sort of BJJ "Rank scandal" it seems someone from Joe Moreira's lineage.

For example:

The Lonnie Phillips /Jonas Cavileer / Dave Vanest debacle.

Also: Joe M. giving Black Belts and advanced belt ranks to: Greg Lee, Heidiki Frazier and a few others. These are two of the worst black belts in the history of BJJ. Obese, blue belt level McDojo Owners. Seriously, a couple of guys who have never competed, only taken privates etc.

I know people who have rolled with Frazier and said it was laughable to see him roll. I have heard first hand from people who have rolled with another well-know Moreira Black Belt who is supposed to be pretty bad too.

There is also stuff like: Joe M giving a 2nd degree Black Belt to John DelaO, who was never given a black belt in the first place.

Go ask at mma.tv.BJJ forum or jiujitsugear forum. The OLD-TIMERS there know the deal with Joe M.

**** BUT**** Joe M DOES know BJJ, I'm not saying he is a "fraud", just that he seems to have questionable/money colored judgement when it come to BB promotions, because SOME (NOT all) of his "Black Belt" promotions are EXTREMELY suspect.

For those who don't know: For a serious fee, has a "black Belt test" for people who are not students of his and have no BJJ affiliation and want to get a Black Belt in BJJ.

Yes, Roy Harris is cool, yes Joe is a "nice guy", but c'mon.

At the VERY least, he has had some VERY low standards for SOME of the black belts he promoted. Yes, rank for a 45-year old is differet than for a 25-year old; not everyone is an "elite" black belt --I get that. But even so...

Simply ask the other Black Belts who actively compete around Southern California what they think of Joe M's black belts, you will get your answer.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/02/2006 12:55am

Originally Posted by oldman34

This is an awesome point. One I have tried to make repeatedly.

Unfortunately, you don't put it that succinctly.

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 11/02/2006 10:51am

Originally Posted by Spezza

Well, there are a few "questionable" Joe M. Black Belts out there. Joe got his black belt from Reylson Gracie, THE biggest fraud in the Gracie family (just check Reylson's Las Vegas school's website if you don't believe that). Often when there is some sort of BJJ "Rank scandal" it seems someone from Joe Moreira's lineage.

For example:

The Lonnie Phillips /Jonas Cavileer / Dave Vanest debacle.

Also: Joe M. giving Black Belts and advanced belt ranks to: Greg Lee, Heidiki Frazier and a few others. These are two of the worst black belts in the history of BJJ. Obese, blue belt level McDojo Owners. Seriously, a couple of guys who have never competed, only taken privates etc.

I know people who have rolled with Frazier and said it was laughable to see him roll. I have heard first hand from people who have rolled with another well-know Moreira Black Belt who is supposed to be pretty bad too.

There is also stuff like: Joe M giving a 2nd degree Black Belt to John DelaO, who was never given a black belt in the first place.

Go ask at mma.tv.BJJ forum or jiujitsugear forum. The OLD-TIMERS there know the deal with Joe M.

**** BUT**** Joe M DOES know BJJ, I'm not saying he is a "fraud", just that he seems to have questionable/money colored judgement when it come to BB promotions, because SOME (NOT all) of his "Black Belt" promotions are EXTREMELY suspect.

For those who don't know: For a serious fee, has a "black Belt test" for people who are not students of his and have no BJJ affiliation and want to get a Black Belt in BJJ.

Yes, Roy Harris is cool, yes Joe is a "nice guy", but c'mon.

At the VERY least, he has had some VERY low standards for SOME of the black belts he promoted. Yes, rank for a 45-year old is differet than for a 25-year old; not everyone is an "elite" black belt --I get that. But even so...

Simply ask the other Black Belts who actively compete around Southern California what they think of Joe M's black belts, you will get your answer.

I read an interview on jiu-jitsu.net with Joe M. He was talking about how he tests people for their black belt. I thought this was odd because from my experience with BJJ, you don't test for your belts, you earn them by comps, sparring, beating the crap out of people your level, doing well agains't others at a higher level, and dominating with an iron fist those below your level. Maybe I'm just living in sugar coated gum drop land...:(...! Well, I knew there were possible(legal) frauds out there, just didn't think it would possibly(legal) be Joe M. Not to say he himself is a fraud, but his method of grading is suspect.

**deputydog95** · Posted On: 11/07/2006 4:34pm

This has been an interesting read. I have been training there for a couple months.

I was training at www.tampabjj.com However, due to the crazy success of that school, it got kind of crowded and I started looking for something smaller. That's where spartan gym came in. I think I found it on craig's list. Anyway, after a series of emails with Bill Banks I decided to give it a shot.

His school doesn't look like much. He runs it out of his garage. It's small, but not too bad. It's not really much smaller than gracietampa.com (been there too. great school and great instructor). Anyway, his classes are private and semi-private as well as some small group sessions in the evening.

I don't remember him ever telling me he was a blackbelt in BJJ. He said he has had training in numerous different arts, but I don't remember him giving me any wild claims.

He seems very proficient and knowledgeable. I've rolled with a lot of people in the past year and he's as good as any of the better people I've gone against. I will say that he is a good instructor who's patient and really seems to be able to communicate well with his students.

To be honest, his creds aren't really important to me. This has got me curious as to exactly what his creds are, but as long as he keeps teaching me some really good stuff in a fun class, that's good enough for me. I will do some asking and report back to you guys.

Bill is a pretty bright guy. I'm sure some of you guys have read his articles that were posted on here. He's definitely not a dope and comes across as very articulate. I can't see him being stupid enough to put ridiculous claims on a website that he couldn't substantiate.