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  1. Amir is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 4:29am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Testing the students, I am afraid I find that unrealistic as well:

    Not everyone is skilled enough to be a champion. Different people have different natural skills. Should a teacher train only those gifted in the M.A. aspect? Should the teachers compete for those skilled students?

    Under which rules will you test? Won’t those rules make it possible for someone to develop “the best M.A.” just because it complies best with the rules?

    What would you do with a M.A. teacher who dedicates is time to teach the disabled?

    What about a teacher who is new (just immigrated for example) and doesn't have veteran students?

    What about a teacher who doesn't care abut the 'Martial aspect' of M.A. or cares less about it, and doesn't mislead anyone about it. Does this make him illegitimate just because his aims in the M.A. are different then yours ?
    ( I know a very dedicated M.A.-tist, who is also a teacher by now whose main reason is health - practicing Tai-Chi helps his knees function after he injured them in the army).

    And how will you test the skills of a Weapons M.A. teacher ? let us assume he isn't teaching empty hand at all but just Kyudo or Kendo or Ksari-Jitsu (Chain) ? (where is the "court" supposed to find an appropriate expert to test him ??)


    The main problem with standardization is each person has different aims. I have yet to have read a single definition of M.A. that made all practitioners of M.A. agree on. I believe, just like any other service or product, any standardization should only insure two things:

    1. The teacher is qualified enough not to harm his students directly (Not when they are facing someone on the street, as mentioned before, such a situation contains way to many factors).

    2. The teacher isn't an outright fraud. He does have the qualifications and training he claims.

    Anything else is up for the student to decide. Just like any other consumer.

    Amir
  2. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 8:12am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't believe in standardization either ~ I really don't see any plausable method for doing that. Students don't really know better though ~ how is a 12 year old supposed to evaluate his teacher.

    1. Parents should be very involved.

    2. There should be some sort of consumer report group that evaluates and offers unbiased opinions as to the validity and competence of an instructor.

    ..without the fear of getting sued.

    Kind of like mcdojo.com or something. :)
  3. aelius is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 9:02am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If the teacher is qualified to teach and makes no claims other than: 'these techniques may help you when attacked or threatened' then I can't see any legal reason how anyone could sue. If the teacher makes outrageous claims like: 'No one will ever kick your ass again,' and you get whooped, then you have a legitimate legal claim against that instructor - although if it's only a verbal acclamation you're gonna find it hard to persue!

    As regarding testing MA instructors. Why? What would it prove? Because an experienced and skillful MA gets an arse kicking does that make him a crap teacher? Don't think so! Learning how to fight isn't the same as being able to.

    When a student learns to drive, does he choose an instructor that has never been involved in an accident on the evidence that they are obviously the best?
  4. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 9:17am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >If the teacher is qualified to teach and makes no claims other than: 'these techniques may help you when attacked or threatened' then I can't see any legal reason how anyone could sue.

    You are correct. You can't sue them for that. It doesn't leave you grounds to sue them on.


    >If the teacher makes outrageous claims like: 'No one will ever kick your ass again,' and you get whooped, then you have a legitimate legal claim against that instructor - although if it's only a verbal acclamation you're gonna find it hard to persue!

    This is misrepresentation and fraud. The Gracies could be sued for this. They are video taped saying that GJJ is "Invincible" and "unbeatable" BUT there are instances where both have been proven wrong. If someone really had a stick up their butt they could make a good case of it.


    >1. Parents should be very involved.

    This is a nobrainer. If the parent is not involved then it is the PARENTS fault if something goes wrong. If my daughter wanted to take a MA course you can bet I will be checking it to see the quality of the school.

    >2. There should be some sort of consumer report group that evaluates and offers unbiased opinions as to the validity and competence of an instructor

    This would involve a STANDARD to judge everyone on. There is no such thing at the moment and it would be hard to do. Also the pple involved would have to have a MA background (that would be like having a cook tell you what car to buy)it would be hard to get a totally UNBAISED veiw.


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  5. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 4:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with Asia that there can never really be a consumer group to provide a standard. How can an unbiased group be formed. They would have to have martial arts background to understand what martial arts was. That in its ownself would make the group biased. They have been trying to push laws to regulate martial art schools, but have not been able to for this reason.

    Now and idea may be to have the school owner go through some certification classes such as emergency training (for injuries), or things of that matter.

    Jeremy M. Talbott
    http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
    http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  6. aelius is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 4:06am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is misrepresentation and fraud. The Gracies could be sued for this. They are video taped saying that GJJ is "Invincible" and "unbeatable" BUT there are instances where both have been proven wrong. If someone really had a stick up their butt they could make a good case of it.

    Didn't realise that they had made such claims. I would suggest that they are treading on very thin ice. How can any one claim that any style is unbeatable?
  7. SifuAbel is offline
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    Hole in one.

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 4:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: LongFist CMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only way to have a fair standards board is that they be nominated by and elected from amoung the current schools. One or more representatives from each style(or at least each type) to insure that one type isn't dominant. (IE the case in NJ were the board was only made up of kempo head teachers, guess what, kempo reigned supreme.) The only standards they should be looking at is credentials, felony background checks and any BBB or consumer board filings. Also, A set limit must be achieved to open a school; say, a minimum of 5 years in the art, 2 years teaching under apprenticeship, certification from a known teacher(or at least a letter of reccomendation from a teacher), or a demonstration of knowledge viewed by the entire panel.(to insure that the competition factor is not abused by one faction. example, kungu fu guys keeping other kungfu guys out). If the above criteria are met them the board does not need to vote. Only if there is an objection by a board memeber should a vote be issued.



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  8. Colm OReilly is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 5:16am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I never saw the GJJ tapes but in what instances did they say GJJ was "invincible"? Was it in sub-wrestling, vale tudo, what exactly?

    Oh and thanks fo the replies guys!
  9. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 9:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "The only way to have a fair standards board is that they be nominated by and elected from amoung the current schools. One or more representatives from each style(or at least each type) to insure that one type isn't dominant."

    Sounds good in theory, but the problem is that there are so many systems and styles that it would nearly impossible to get a board together. Plus you have in fighting within styles themselves. "He doesn't teach real Kempo. He teaches his own made up style." Sound familiar?

    Criminal background checks, BBB ratings and things of that sort are a great way to at least keep the consumer informed.

    Jeremy M. Talbott
    http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
    http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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