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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 1:28pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by teth
    I would love a list of the literature you've read concerning the subject, since your previous comments seem to denote ignorance in the field.
    The same is required of you.
    If you are game, we can take our conversation to email, so as not to clutter up this thread any further.
    Start a new thread emails can be twisted.

    I cannot argue anything concerning the people you have met who call themselves occultists. Occultism is saturated with nut-jobs, neo-hippies, delusionals, and utter phonies. Then again, so is the martial arts world. Of course, in the world of occultism, like that of martial arts, one can also find rocket scientists, physicists, scholars, doctors, lawyers, psychologists and other respected professionals.

    Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
    As with your martial arts example they don't lend validity to what they pracitce. If it is fake it doesn't become legit because <insert your examples> practice said art, religion, occultism, politics etc etc etc.
  2. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 1:46pm

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    Here is a list of all of the books in my "Occult" library. I actually started with the Arthur Conan Doyle books because I loved all of his other work. They were an enjoyable read and led me to reading "Morals and Dogma". The others I read because I had a crazy girlfriend who was heavily into the occult and I was trying to figure WTF was wrong with her head. The are all copies of books she owned. The people I've met who were into this stuff were generally college students and college professors none of them had much of a grasp on how to evaluate the validity of their concepts logically or even how to frame an argument in support of their point. Anyways, here's the list:

    Al Azif - The Necronomicon
    Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma
    A Practical Guide to Witchcraft and Magick Spells
    Aleister Crowley - Magic Without Tears
    Aleister Crowley - Magick in Theory & Practice
    Arthur Conan Doyle - Pheneas Speaks
    Arthur Conan Doyle - The History of Spiritualism I
    Arthur Conan Doyle - The History of Spiritualism II
    Arthur Conan Doyle - The New Revelation & Vital Message
    Rudolf Steiner - An Outline of Occult Science
    Wicca - Witchcraft Today
    William Blake - The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
  3. teth is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 1:53pm

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    >>>Teth:I would love a list of the literature you've read concerning the subject, since your previous comments seem to denote ignorance in the field.
    >>>It Is Fake:The same is required of you.<<<

    That would be a rather long list. A short list for starters:

    Robert Anton Wilson, Christopher Hyatt, Israel Regardie, Lon Milo DuQuette, William Westcott, S. L. MacGregor Mathers, Aleister Crowley, Paracelsus, Plato, William Blake, Adam McLean, Mark Stavish, Frater Albertus, Joseph Lisiewski, Eliphas Levi, Henry Cornelius Agrippa, A.E. Waite, Benjamin Rowe, Peter Carroll, Phil Hine, Pat Zalewski, Paul Foster Case, etc.


    >>>It Is Fake:Start a new thread emails can be twisted.<<<

    An occultism thread on a martial arts forum?

    >>>As with your martial arts example they don't lend validity to what they pracitce. If it is fake it doesn't become legit because <insert your examples> practice said art, religion, occultism, politics etc etc etc.<<<

    Agreed, but my primary point in listing those professions was to show that one can be an occultist without having to be some sort of fluff-bunny flower-child with no concept of logic or deductive reasoning.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 2:00pm

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    General Skeptism:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/



    Sociocide:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82

    Yes, on a Martial Arts Website.


    Thanks for providing a list.

    Agreed, but my primary point in listing those professions was to show that one can be an occultist without having to be some sort of fluff-bunny flower-child with no concept of logic or deductive reasoning.
    Didn't say anything to the contrary.
  5. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 4:26pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I work in a university physics department, and while I can't speak for physicists/rocket scientists/doctors in general, quite a few of the ones I know are/were into the occult. They find it hilarious.
  6. CrackFox is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 5:22pm

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    Oh yeah, and the Necronomicon does not exist.
  7. shironinja is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 5:39pm

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    I wish my name was KURT von SLAMMECK. Dang.
    Now or never.
  8. teth is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 7:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Al Azif - The Necronomicon
    Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma
    A Practical Guide to Witchcraft and Magick Spells
    Aleister Crowley - Magic Without Tears
    Aleister Crowley - Magick in Theory & Practice
    Arthur Conan Doyle - Pheneas Speaks
    Arthur Conan Doyle - The History of Spiritualism I
    Arthur Conan Doyle - The History of Spiritualism II
    Arthur Conan Doyle - The New Revelation & Vital Message
    Rudolf Steiner - An Outline of Occult Science
    Wicca - Witchcraft Today
    William Blake - The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
    The Necronomicon is a fictional book, so that can be tossed out. Albert Pike, though not technically occultism, is a great book concerning some of the more esoteric symbolism found in Masonic Ritual.

    I have never read the Arthur Conan Doyle books, but, as I've mentioned, Spiritualism and Occultism tend to be two entirely different creatures. The occultist Aleister Crowley, for example, deemed spiritualists to be little more than a bunch of hackneyed con artsists.

    "A practical guide to Witchcraft..." seems little more than fluff. "Witchcraft Today" is a case of pseudo-legitimacy in and of itself. Its author, Gerald Gardner, claimed to be initiated into some mysteriously hidden coven of ancient witches, when what he had actually done was watered down some Thelemic ritual concepts (he was briefly a member of Crowley's OTO), combined them with the works of Charles G. Leland, threw in some herbalism and whammo -- the religion of Wicca was founded.

    I haven't read enough Steiner to comment.

    The two glaringly obvious cases of Occultism in your library, then, would be the Crowley and the Blake. Both, however, are rather complicated. Without a background in comparative religion, Hermetic Qabalah, and ritual magic, a large portion of Crowley's work will be generally unintelligible -- sort of like attempting advanced BJJ positioning without an understanding of the guard.

    When it comes down to Blake, though he was indeed an occultist, one needs to actually have a knowledge of pre-19th century esotericism as well as alchemical concepts (with a healthy knowledge of the Bible as well) in order to properly understand the mystical aspects of his writings. Though, the Marriage of Heaven and Hell is, in my opinion, a masterpiece.
  9. teth is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 7:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackFox
    I work in a university physics department, and while I can't speak for physicists/rocket scientists/doctors in general, quite a few of the ones I know are/were into the occult. They find it hilarious.
    Perhaps you might have access to some academic journals showcasing the works of Joseph C. Lisiewski, Phd. and his work with the Relativistic Space Time Continuum. I've read two of his books concerning occultism, but it would be cool to research some of the more "academic" subjects he is working on.

    I would also suggest reading some of Robert Anton Wilson's "Cosmic Trigger" books as well, in order to have a better understanding of where physics, occultism, and psychedelics meet and, eventually, complement one another.
  10. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 7:29pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

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    As I said, the "Wtichcraft" books came from a crazy girlfriends library.

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