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  1. NasalInfection is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/19/2006 1:54pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Workout with Bad Knee

    The Setup: After mostly recovering from my hamstring I competed in the Tomiki Aikido Nationals last weekend (waiting for footage for YMAS). After a match against the National Toshu Champion, and losing, I am unable to bend my right knee without popping and pain.

    The Injury: Orthopedist said its likely a torn meniscus, I have discoid meniscii and had something similar happen in high school with my left knee. Waiting MRI but I am fairly certain, also confident this will require surgery.

    The Question: Between letting the hamstring recover and now a knee injury, I am a quivering mass of gassed jello. What is my best course of action to begin working out again without irritating the injury? (right knee, hamstring seems to be doing fine)
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2006 3:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NasalInfection
    The Setup: After mostly recovering from my hamstring I competed in the Tomiki Aikido Nationals last weekend (waiting for footage for YMAS). After a match against the National Toshu Champion, and losing, I am unable to bend my right knee without popping and pain.

    The Injury: Orthopedist said its likely a torn meniscus, I have discoid meniscii and had something similar happen in high school with my left knee. Waiting MRI but I am fairly certain, also confident this will require surgery.

    The Question: Between letting the hamstring recover and now a knee injury, I am a quivering mass of gassed jello. What is my best course of action to begin working out again without irritating the injury? (right knee, hamstring seems to be doing fine)
    Rest dammit!!!! Get a support knee brace, preferably a futuro brand one.

    Obviously you won't be able to run, skip or do anything leg-related. I doubt you could even do push ups as you require your legs to be firm either on your toes or on your knees. I wouldn't even do heavy bench presses. My suggestion would be do to machines and dumbells... all of them from a seated position (NOTHING STANDING DUDE :biblethum)

    Machine-based lateral pulls (rows), machine bench presses, lateral raises, dumbell bicep curls and overhead tricep extensions. Since you may want to up your cardio, do them with high volume sets with short breaks in between.

    Good luck.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. sochin101 is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2006 3:21pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Listen to El Macho... he gave me some great advice on my knees when I first joined the site.

    Good luck with your adapting to training and any subsequent surgery.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi

  4. Ryno is offline

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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2006 6:05pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey El Macho, do you have a brace recommendation for MCL support? Something I can wear when rolling, and also for stickfighting? Damn knee just went out on me for the third time, and lateral stability has been shakey for a long time now. Anything to help prevent kneecap dislocation/MCL tear would be quite useful.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/19/2006 7:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno
    Hey El Macho, do you have a brace recommendation for MCL support? Something I can wear when rolling, and also for stickfighting? Damn knee just went out on me for the third time, and lateral stability has been shakey for a long time now. Anything to help prevent kneecap dislocation/MCL tear would be quite useful.
    Oh gosh, maybe I'm a *****, but I wouldn't roll if my knee were to bother me that much. I haven't trained in two weeks because my left wrist has been acting up. I may go this Saturday to train, dunno, but I'm too old to keep playing the "**** it, I'm gonna suck it up" game. :pottytrai

    I've never had a popped knee, but sometimes I suffer from chronic knee pain. Sometimes it feels as if I have sand under the knee cap, and sometimes my right knee hurts when I'm going down with a heavy set of squats. So please don't take my words as gospel. These are the things I've been trying for years to deal with chronic ailments combined with good advise from my sister who has a MS in Physical Therapy. It may work for me, and it may work for you, with some adjustments here and there.

    Anyways, this is what I use when rolling or when my knees begin acting out at the gym (click on the pic - it has a link to this product).


    There is also the futuro knee stabilizer. I tried that one once, but it was a bit uncomfortable, so I switched to the one just mentioned above. It provides some really good support, so you may want to try both.

    What I do sometimes is that I wrap just below the kneecap (wrapping the lower 1/3 of it) with a 2" ACE band, and then put the futuro brace over it. Regardless, expect the brace to move around as you roll :)

    If you have a torn ACL or MCL, I would avoid all type of activities, but that's just me. One thing that can be done once you begin to recover (and for those who want to minimize the risk of a popped knee), you need to strenghten your hamstrings and vastus medialis (see pic below) and to a lesser degree, your shin muscles.


    Hamstrings provide stability when you push your body with your leg. People think only the quadriceps do the work - they may do the push, but hamstrings provide stabilty.

    No stability --> eventual fuckup --> ouch --> :emo: --> :seppuku:


    Also, most people are built in a way that leaves them to develop a weak vastus medialis compared to the vastus lateralis. The vastus medialis is the one responsible to keeping the kneecap in place.

    Weak vastus medials --> Vastus Lateralis pulls to the outside + instability --> kneecap goes that way --> ouch --> :emo: --> :seppuku:


    Most people work their legs by doing movements similar to squats. Usually that will neglect the vastus medialis. To avoid that, the best thing is to do one legged leg extensions - certainly not if you are just fresh from a popped knee, but that's something to consider. Remember, do them one leg at a time instead of using both legs.

    In the absence of a leg extension machine, lunges will do. If you can do both, that's even better. Either way, that's the primary way to strenghten the vastus medialis. Do that in combination with one legged leg curls for the hamstrings (standing leg curls in a machine preferably) and reverse calf raises.

    But stronger, more stable muscles is only half of the equation. You also need flexibility. Hamstring flexibility, quad flexibility, shin flexibility, hip flexor flexibility. You have to remember that a knee gets popped (or any articulation gets popped for that matter because

    1) there is a lot of torsion on a lower limb pushing it beyond it's natural range of motion,
    2) the muscles are not strong enough to keep the articulations in the leg in a stable configuration, and
    3) the ligaments, the muscles being twisted, extended and/or pushed are not flexible enough to "give in" as fast and as much as they need to before snapping.

    I wrote a long ass post a while ago on how to achieve good flexibility to avoid injuries here. Check it out when you get a chance.

    And be careful guys :)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

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