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  1. ignatzami is offline
    ignatzami's Avatar

    l Travel To Get Choked!

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,849

    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 2:49pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    Adding to this thread because I really like the conversation, and a lot of the older advice applies to me. I have a scenario I'd really love some feedback on:

    Lately in class I've been doing really well rolling with our blue and white belts - holding my own against blues and essentially dominating whites, while trying to learn something and/or teach something depending on my partner. I've been the uke/demo dummy for all sorts of techniques, and I'm honored to have that position.

    We don't have a lot of purples at my school, and last night I ended up rolling with a black belt instructor and former competitive fighter. I felt like a toddler grappling an anaconda. The guy wouldn't give me an iota of room to work, just dominated the **** out of me and capitalized brutally on my (multiple) mistakes. I don't feel like I learned a single thing, there was just too big a gap between my knowledge and his skill. Not to mention the guy has 45 lbs on me, which made the skill gap even more painfully obvious.

    I don't mind tapping to anybody - I feed my less skilled partners armbars, back mount, triangles...and try to work myself or help them through the mental processes they need to make techniques work. Sometimes I am able to work out of a position, other times I tap. Fine. But rolling with this BB was just pure frustration with no learning taking place.

    BB capitalized on my mistakes with skill which is reasonable, but to be honest, he finished me with pure brute force. After tapping a few times I thanked him for the chiropractic adjustment, but frankly I was pissed. Am I wrong? Nobody got anything out of it, and this is class rolling not fuckin Mundials. I'm no egomaniac when I roll or work with lower rank/skilled partners, so why dog me so bad?

    I get the idea put forth by jnp that negative reinforcement works, but shouldn't there be a reasonable limit?

    Today = can't swallow without pain + purple big toe + sore neck + trashed shoulder. Seems an extreme lesson.
    I hate to randori with one of the brown belts in my club. He's a colossal ass-hole and generally a prick. I don't like him, I don't trust him, and I rarely learn anything when I play him.

    Yet if I have a competition coming up he's the one I play. Every day, every class, every time. Why? Because I HAVE to play better, move better, throw harder, roll better because he will eat me alive if I don't.

    He's still a cock, but I learn to step up my game because I REFUSE to be thrown by him, REFUSE to tap to him and have to bust my ass to make sure I don't have to!
    I do not aspire to be great, or even good, I hope to suck a little less then last class.
  2. tao.jonez is offline
    tao.jonez's Avatar

    Ninja Fruit

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,055

    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 3:05pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I get it - I don't mind going hard and being dominated - a black belt deserves to throw his weight around some. But what did he get out of this session? I got nothing out of it other than my ass kicked. Where's the benefit to anyone?

    Maybe I suck too much to understand all the great things I should have learned...I'll grant you that possibility. But I know enough to tell you that this **** was full on brute force finshing. The 2nd time he had my back, right arm trapped low, head and left arm stuck inside a nasty neck crank, and I was stretched out fully. Helpless. (I wish I had been able to see myself.) A neck crank is a bully fuckin move.

    Hmm...now that I'm calm I have to admit that I didn't tap early. And I um struggled and defended (aka kept breathing and hoping he'd get tired) maybe a little longer than necessary.

    I just realized I suck worse than I thought I did 10 minutes ago.
  3. HonkyTonkMan is offline
    HonkyTonkMan's Avatar

    Y SO SRIUS?

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Black Belt City, Mississippi
    Posts
    5,434

    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 3:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa View Post

    I'm usually one of the easiest on lower belts and let them exploit intentional and unintentional opening but sometimes I have my own reasons for opening up on them too.

    There is a guy in my sub grap class that is a complete asshole. He has a brown belt in BJJ and lets you know it. If he taps you (which he does so frequently to me that I should get some sort of frequent flyer miles) he says,
    "and thats why I am a brown belt". If you even get close to submitting him he gets all huffy about it.

    On the reverse side, there is a brown belt that I love to roll with because he will let you (you dont know it at the time) get into a good position just to see what you can/will do. After he reverses me he explains what happened and why.

    There is always some asshole that you train with. I Spar/roll with them the same as I do with guys I like.
    If I let my anger/ego get in the way it only hampers my learning.
  4. kwoww is offline
    kwoww's Avatar

    poser

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley / Rochester
    Posts
    1,986

    Posted On:
    7/23/2009 4:46pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    On the reverse side, there is a brown belt that I love to roll with because he will let you (you dont know it at the time) get into a good position just to see what you can/will do. After he reverses me he explains what happened and why.
    Fortunately I haven't run into any serious egomaniacs while rolling yet, but I gotta agree that it's great to roll with really experienced guys like this.
  5. JP is offline
    JP's Avatar

    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2,290

    Posted On:
    7/24/2009 4:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO, mma, jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ignatzami View Post
    I hate to randori with one of the brown belts in my club. He's a colossal ass-hole and generally a prick. I don't like him, I don't trust him, and I rarely learn anything when I play him.

    Yet if I have a competition coming up he's the one I play. Every day, every class, every time. Why? Because I HAVE to play better, move better, throw harder, roll better because he will eat me alive if I don't.

    He's still a cock, but I learn to step up my game because I REFUSE to be thrown by him, REFUSE to tap to him and have to bust my ass to make sure I don't have to!
    Ain't that the truth?

    I've found guys like that to be occasionally handy also, even if I'm not training to compete, because I sometimes have a rough time getting to that "get them" instinct. I wanted to write killer instinct but don't like the way in sounds in this context.

    But with that guy, I have no problem going after him with aggression. Because I know he's going to do the same no matter what mood I'm in or what I'm trying to accomplish with my training that particular day.
    Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
    and remember what peace there may be in silence.
    As far as possible, without surrender,
    be on good terms with all persons.
    Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
    and listen to others,
    even to the dull and ignorant;
    they too have their story.

    -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.
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