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  1. Rock Ape is offline
    Rock Ape's Avatar

    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2006 12:48pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry for joining this discussion a bit late however; I see two distinct problems with the issue of banning/licensing "Japanese Swords"

    1, The governing body - The British Kendo Association is as I understand it in discussions with the British Government about creating legislation which allows the student of a legitimate sword art to legally own and use a Japanese sword however.. "Japanese Sword" has yet to be truly defined in terms of the law.

    2, In creating a 'blanket ban' where no one is legally able to use any form of sword for the study of JSA, will inevitably create a group of illegal users (me included) who ultimately refuse to surrender their weapons but, the Police would have little advanced knowledge of that activity unless it was brought to their attention however; by creating a licensing scheme, the government would be in the possession of information relating to clubs and individual thus, if a ban ever did come in to effect, those details would be acted upon thus, its a bit of a double edged 'sword' pardon the pun.

    As an individual, I'm not in favour of either a ban or a licence scheme, the reality is of course that crime perpetrated with "samurai swords" (in the UK) is in a minority compared to other bladed weapon; yes samurai swords are used and seem to attract the attention of the media but it is merely hype, hype which attracts the attention of the public and their parliamentary members.

    In the last few months since this information really surfaced there hasn't been any great developments, obviously an eye needs to be kept watch on the situation however, I don't feel the need to worry a great deal about it presently.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  2. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2006 2:17pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate1481
    I can see the picking on 'samurai' swords irronicaly if you buy a straight 'ninja' sword... this would not be covered technically, but with the popularity of films involving swords (Blade, LOTR etc) and such it would be even more pointless (not 2 say this isn't what will happen) but the number of replica swords from these is
    This is what I hate, the government are using the image of the sword to try and get it banned in order to gain publicity and public support without consideration of the facts. I'd love to know the actual statistics of how many people are killed every year by swords.

    On the LARPing front, real LARPers have to have a spesific level of padding on contact weapons with all sorts of rules on it. I take your point though and assume you mean the people who are just acting like a 5 year old with a stick.
    Yes, you are completely right. I was not referring to actual Live Action Roleplayers in this context. I know a group of actual LARPers and have done some swordwork with them. Everything about their weapons and combat rules is designed with safety as the paramount concern.

    My reference was to deluded Martial Arts practitioners, particularly (in my experience) Karate and TKD people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humm
    1, The governing body - The British Kendo Association is as I understand it in discussions with the British Government about creating legislation which allows the student of a legitimate sword art to legally own and use a Japanese sword however.. "Japanese Sword" has yet to be truly defined in terms of the law.
    That's fine then, because my BKA insurance (that I need to renew.....) will cover that.

    In the last few months since this information really surfaced there hasn't been any great developments, obviously an eye needs to be kept watch on the situation however, I don't feel the need to worry a great deal about it presently.
    Wait til election season, this will be a vote and publicity grabber, just like the current run on Muslim head scarves.


    A news story related to this (a bit old bit relevent):
    Swords ban to beat violent crime
    A sword handed in during a nationwide knife amnesty
    Swords were handed in and destroyed during a knife amnesty
    A crackdown on the sale of swords has been launched as part of a campaign to tackle knife crime and violence.

    Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson announced laws to ban swords unless sold for legitimate reasons.

    Shops selling swords will need a licence, as will businesses dealing with non-domestic knives and other bladed weapons such as machetes.

    The measures are the latest steps from the Scottish Executive to curb the problem of knife crime.

    They come weeks after a nationwide knife amnesty.

    A total of 12,645 blades - including lock knives, machetes, swords, meat cleavers, bayonets and axes - were handed in during the five-week amnesty.


    People must realise that swords cause horrific injuries when they get into the wrong hands
    Det Chief Supt John Carnochan
    Violence Reduction Unit

    Exemptions to the ban on sword sales include swords that are to be used for Highland dancing, museum displays, historical re-enactments, fencing and martial arts.

    Ms Jamieson said: "Knife-carrying is all too prevalent in some communities, particularly in the west of Scotland, and has cut short and scarred too many young lives.

    "In these areas police, doctors and law-abiding citizens have seen the damaging effects of swords, including samurai swords, being wielded on the streets.

    "It is simply far too easy at present for these weapons to be bought and sold."

    Anyone selling swords under the exemptions would have to take "reasonable steps" to establish that the intended use was a legitimate one.

    Commercial sellers will have to comply with strict new licensing conditions, including keeping records of all sales.

    'Deep-rooted culture'

    Ms Jamieson added: "The licensing regime for sales of all non-domestic knives should help weed out unscrupulous traders and help legitimate traders take steps to avoid these dangerous weapons falling into the wrong hands."

    The measures will be included in a new Sentencing Bill, which will go before the Scottish Parliament later in the year.

    It comes after First Minister Jack McConnell announced a five-point plan to tackle knife crime in November 2004.

    Other parts of the plan brought in under the Police, Public Order and Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act doubled the maximum penalty for carrying a knife to four years, gave police the unconditional power to search someone they suspect of carrying a weapon and increased the minimum age for buying a knife from 16 to 18.

    Det Ch Supt John Carnochan, head of the police's violence reduction unit, hailed the measures as "another major step forward in the fight against knife crime and violence".

    More than half the murders in Scotland each year are carried out with knives or other sharp weapons.

    Det Ch Supt Carnochan said a licensing scheme alone would not solve "the deep-rooted culture of violence which is prevalent in parts of Scotland" but added that combined with the other measures it would have a positive impact.

    Cultural problem

    He added: "People must realise that swords cause horrific injuries when they get into the wrong hands. We routinely see incidents involving swords, which result in appalling injuries."

    Kenny MacAskill MSP, justice spokesman for the SNP, said: "We must continue to recognise that knives are as much of a cultural problem in our communities as they are a criminal one.

    "We must ensure we tackle the causes as well as the symptoms of this scar on our communities."

    Margaret Mitchell, justice spokeswoman for the Scottish Conservatives , said: "I broadly welcome these moves but legislation alone is never going to be enough.

    "We have to make sure that anyone who would use any kind of knife or weapon feels the full force of the law and the strongest possible custodial sentence."
    Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/4788881.stm
  3. Nate1481 is offline
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    Why did they never try this....

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2006 5:50pm

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     Style: Jujutsu/Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm interesting, the idea of licencing sellers rather than parctisioners makes alot of sence, less paper work and 'reasonable steps' would provide stop some impulse purchases that end in trouble.

    On the other hand anyone wanting to run amuck with a sword will just fake an MA membership card/letter from sensai, and unless you want to start making swords traceable (stamp an ID on the blade or smothing) you won't be abel to shut shops where this seems to happen alot.
    "This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
  4. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    10/16/2006 8:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When they ban pointy sticks, I hope there's a licensing scheme to allow people who have a legitimate need (and the necessary qualifications) to roast marshmallows.
    But not, you know, in urban areas.
    *********************************************
  5. NorthWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 7:54am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    A news story related to this (a bit old bit relevent):

    Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/4788881.stm
    That story refers to a proposed piece of Scottish legislation. I'm not aware of there being a similar thing on the table nationally.

    The Scottish government has, since day one, been attempting to solve the knife crime problem by ever stricter rules on carrying and ownership. Did you know that in Glasgow, which is like the Mordor of British knife violence, you can be arrested under new zero tolerance policing guidelines for carrying a perfectly legal, small, non locking pen knife?
    I guess **** like that makes for easier and better and EVER MORE STRIDENT headlines, despite the fact that all of their crackdowns and amnesties have had precisely **** all effect.
    Every weekend, in every town in Scotland, stab frenzy.

    Scots must just really like to stab.
  6. rottunpunk is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 8:49am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mjer iai, aiki

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the scottish legislation is very similar to the english bill thats going through now.
    it should mean a decrease in the number of wallhangers sold in poundshops, but i dont see how they can control ebay and such like.
    and how easy will it be to say, ah yes i do a martial art, see my certificates (still wet from the home compuitor) please let me buy a paul chen?
    all sorts of stuf about shinken use and the insurance to cover it is causing problems too
    *sigh*
    :p
  7. Nate1481 is offline
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    Why did they never try this....

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 9:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jujutsu/Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another thing to consider is if it will be restricted to live blades. Unlikely given that a length of poinlty steal can do a lot of damage even it its as blunt as a butter knife, and especial given that your average ebay sword that starts blunt can be sharpend up just like a carving knife

    In short any legislation will most likely screw over ligitimate users and not do a bloody thing about people being idiots. There will either be a huge loop hole ment as a consession or the people wanting to be idiots will just find another weapon, and those who want to train swamped with paper work.

    On the other hand dose anyone else remember a stink after some kid getting injured messing around after the Ninja Turtle films came out? Don't remember will but think then was call for a ban then that came to nothing. (It may have been aobut banning ht film thought)
    "This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
  8. NorthWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 4:47am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate1481
    On the other hand dose anyone else remember a stink after some kid getting injured messing around after the Ninja Turtle films came out? Don't remember will but think then was call for a ban then that came to nothing. (It may have been aobut banning ht film thought)
    I think the stink may have been about the movie, as nunchuks have been banned in the UK since the 70's.

    I wouldn't get too hopeful for any common sense to come to the fore over this issue. There is a problem with knife violence in this country, but do you really expect politicians, the Police, the media and various rentamouth pressure groups to voluntarily take on the real hard work at the heart of the problem when they can score easy points with the public by banning stuff?
  9. rottunpunk is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 5:26am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mjer iai, aiki

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the knife amnesty did make me laugh. i still have mine, and i got a pretty purple one for my birthday recently. no doubt chavs who would actually use them against people still have theirs too.

    nunchaku are banned? theres a martial arts type shop down the road who sells them. perhaps i should let them know.
    wasnt all the turtles hype because of kids getting stuck down sewers?
    :p
  10. NorthWest is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 5:33am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can purchase and own them, but under no circumstances can you carry them in public.
    Or something.
    You'd think the law banning them hadn't been properly thought through, wouldn't you. Surely not...
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