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  1. Samfoo is offline
    Samfoo's Avatar

    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2006 6:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    My Strategy for Knee on Belly

    So, I was going to write a long essay on what my strategy is from every position, but I turned out to have a lot more to say than I expected. Depending on how well this thread goes over, I might write up more strategies that I use from each position. Feel free to share your own strategies, and tell me how awesome or crappy you think mine are. Without any further adieu...

    From side control:

    My primary goal when in side control is to get to knee on belly. Most of my top game strategy revolves around using knee on belly to set up a series of submissions (more on this later). Because of this, most of my grips and positioning set me up to take knee on stomach easily.

    Establishing a strong side control:

    The first and most important thing to establish in side control is getting my knee up to the hip as tight as possible. This makes it difficult to regain half/full guard or do any flexible trickiness with their legs. The next most important thing to establish is the cross face. The cross face allows me to keep my opponent flat on his back since he can't turn into me. If I can't get the cross face because he's blocking with his near arm, I immediatly switch my base until I can get the arm in and stabilize. Finally, the last piece of the puzzle is getting the arm that is not doing the cross facing on the opposite side of his hip to keep him from making space and turning on his side. Obviously the normal pinning do's and don't's apply (keep your pressure down at all times, hips low, etc, etc).

    Moving from side control to knee on stomach:

    The first thing I do when I go for knee on belly is get my hand on the arm that's crossfacing on their collar. Straighten the arm and push down. Shift the knee up and get on your foot. All the typical weight placement gotchas apply. One of the important things about keeping knee on stomach is how your knee/shin lays across them and how you drive your weight into them. What I do is keep my foot (on the leg that's on the stomach) 100% off the ground. The only time I move the foot down, it's to lock my foot next to their hip so they can't push my foot to quarter guard. Often I keep my knee about midway up their torso instead of actually on their belly, however, it can be done either way. If they try to buck you off to their opposite side, simply place your free hand on the mat next to their hips. The reason I put it next to their hips is so that if they upa and try to buck me off, and then follow with an elbow escape, the hand on the ground is blocking their hips from elbow escaping. Obviously if they try to elbow escape you can use the same block, but if you fail, no harm's done because you can just drop your knee to the ground and start over from side control.

    Attacking from side control:

    The first attack that I generally do is a collar choke. The hand that is holding the back of their collar pulls out to make a little space and your free hand replaces it (as deep as possible). With the now free hand, reach on the other side of their head and "karate chop" their neck. Hold the gi on the back if you can, but if you can't just hook your hand over. Pull them to their side and lift up with your back hand. If they try to keep you from switching hands by keeping their head on the mat, just use your other hand, cup the back of their head and lift it up to make space.

    One of the ways to defend said choke is for them to keep the second hand from establishing the karate chop. If they use their arms closest to you to reach up and block, hop your knee into their armpit and swing your other leg over to armbar (typical armbar techniques still apply). If they don't use their close hand because they know that the arm bar is coming, they have to use the far hand. This takes a bit of nuance, but you can get them to turn on their side-ish. As they defend with the other arm, swing around their head and arm bar that arm. If they turn to that side quicker than you can swing, repeat the process on the other arm (so swing back and attack the other arm).

    Obviously you can also use knee on stomach to take mount if you want. I don't think that needs to be described here. You can also use more traditional chokes like a bat choke, and probably an ezekial (I rarely use the ezekial so I don't try it from knee on belly often).
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  2. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2006 11:33am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is all good info.

    How do you grip no-gi?
  3. Jason Voorhees is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2006 10:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Zhoo Zhitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Solid info that I can definately see working on. Knee on stomach is more of an experimental/transitory position for me as of this point, but I can see the potential for an agressive mounted offense from their.

    Oh, and off-topic a little, I saw your Match at the Pac NW 2 tourney and that Kimura looked pretty brutal Sam. It was damn colse up until that point though. This is the guy that met you at weigh-ins Friday night by the way.
  4. mmacount123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2006 10:20pm


     Style: martial

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    good stuff. thanks!
  5. MEGALEF is offline

    Still digging on James Brown

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2006 6:43am


     Style: BJJ & Judo (1k)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, have you tried getting the brabo grip before going to knee on belly? You can put some really crazy pressure with that.
  6. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2006 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    This is all good info.

    How do you grip no-gi?
    I don't roll no-gi often enough, so my strategies aren't as developed. Typically in no-gi I don't go for knee on belly as hard as I do gi though. Primarily because it's more difficult to control hip/head movement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  7. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2006 1:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Voorhees
    Solid info that I can definately see working on. Knee on stomach is more of an experimental/transitory position for me as of this point, but I can see the potential for an agressive mounted offense from their.

    Oh, and off-topic a little, I saw your Match at the Pac NW 2 tourney and that Kimura looked pretty brutal Sam. It was damn colse up until that point though. This is the guy that met you at weigh-ins Friday night by the way.
    Knee on stomach was a transition-position for me as well until I learned a couple moves from it and started to experiment on my own. After working with it a lot, I found that I had more opportunities for submission from there that I did in side-control, and less chance of losing position than if I went directly for mount.

    Brutal is a good word to use. I've been getting no end of **** from my coach for losing since I was up 6-0 with 30 secs left when I got submitted. C'est la vie, next time I won't make the same mistake.
    Last edited by Samfoo; 10/12/2006 1:43pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  8. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2006 1:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A quick addendum, Ivan Salaverry has one of the most brutal knee on stomachs I've ever experienced. With a gi, he has a grip on your collar, and drives his knee into your chest while he arches up and yanks on your collar. He's submitted me just by doing this before and I know multiple other people (bigger than me) to which he's done the same thing. I've tried doing this myself but haven't had nearly the success that Ivan does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Imagine if track was run like the martial arts community. While the winning teams would just sprint down the field, smoking the competition, you'd have a bunch of losers running around explaining how they can skip down the track just as fast. Never mind that it doesn't fucking work. Oh no, they're too fast for track. They run on the STREET.
  9. Towtruck is online now

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/14/2006 9:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, I've had the pleasure of the Ivan Salaverry Knee-On-Belly. It's NOT fun. Almost as not fun as the Ivan Salaverry crucifix armbar, and the Ivan Salaverry triangle. Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet, but roll with him at your peril.

    Knee-on-belly is a position I've been trying to use more effectively myself. For some reason I'm better at getting it when we do no-gi.

    Sam, are you doing both tournaments in November, or just the one on the 11th?

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