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  1. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:04pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Martial Art or Martial Sport...are they really the same thing?

    A great deal of people will often say that such and such style is not a Martial Art, its a Martial Sport.
    Are the two interchangeable......
    The proverbial two sides of the same coin?
    The definitions came from the googled online dictionary

    mar‧tial

    –adjective 1.inclined or disposed to war; warlike: The ancient Romans were a martial people. 2.of, suitable for, or associated with war or the armed forces: martial music. 3.characteristic of or befitting a warrior: a martial stride.


    art1 

    –noun 1.the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance. 2.the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection. 3.a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art. 4.the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture. 5.any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art. 6.(in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story? 7.the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling. 8.the craft or trade using these principles or methods. 9.skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation. 10.a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.




    sport

    –noun 1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. 2.a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors. 3.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. 4.jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously. 5.mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him. 6.an object of derision; laughingstock. 7.something treated lightly or tossed about like a plaything. 8.something or someone subject to the whims or vicissitudes of fate, circumstances, etc. 9.a sportsman. 10.Informal. a person who behaves in a sportsmanlike, fair, or admirable manner; an accommodating person: He was a sport and took his defeat well.
  2. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:08pm

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well the sport is obviously the activity in which the art is applied, so they're not really interchangeable. However, while boxing is obviously a sport, it is also an art since it is a systematic method for learning a combat skill which just so happens to be learned for the sake of applying it within a specific sport.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  3. MARTIALSTUDANT is offline

    VILLOGE IDIAT

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:11pm


     Style: Looking Now

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    A great deal of people will often say that such and such style is not a Martial Art, its a Martial Sport.
    Are the two interchangeable......
    The proverbial two sides of the same coin?
    The definitions came from the googled online dictionary

    mar‧tial

    –adjective 1.inclined or disposed to war; warlike: The ancient Romans were a martial people. 2.of, suitable for, or associated with war or the armed forces: martial music. 3.characteristic of or befitting a warrior: a martial stride.


    art1 

    –noun 1.the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance. 2.the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection. 3.a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art. 4.the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture. 5.any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art. 6.(in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story? 7.the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling. 8.the craft or trade using these principles or methods. 9.skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation. 10.a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.




    sport

    –noun 1.an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. 2.a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors. 3.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. 4.jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously. 5.mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him. 6.an object of derision; laughingstock. 7.something treated lightly or tossed about like a plaything. 8.something or someone subject to the whims or vicissitudes of fate, circumstances, etc. 9.a sportsman. 10.Informal. a person who behaves in a sportsmanlike, fair, or admirable manner; an accommodating person: He was a sport and took his defeat well.

    You googled it you posted the definition's and you still ask? What can't you figure out old senile man? Let martialstudant help you:adios:
  4. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:12pm


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    well the sport is obviously the activity in which the art is applied, so they're not really interchangeable. However, while boxing is obviously a sport, it is also an art since it is a systematic method for learning a combat skill which just so happens to be learned for the sake of applying it within a specific sport.
    What she said.

    I'd add that I think it's a case of all "martial sports" are also martial arts, but not all martial arts are martial sports; RBSD, non-sparring non-competing MA's, etc. for example are Martial arts but do not have "sport" components. If someone can suggest to me a martial sport which is not also a martial art maybe this disucssion can progress (and please don't say football or hockey or something, those are not really martial at all, though they are rough and tough.)
  5. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well by the very definition, you can't really have a "sport" that isn't an "art" since a sport by it's very nature is something that has a learned method or skill (9.skill in conducting any human activity).
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  6. MARTIALSTUDANT is offline

    VILLOGE IDIAT

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:42pm


     Style: Looking Now

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Epicurus
    What she said.

    I'd add that I think it's a case of all "martial sports" are also martial arts, but not all martial arts are martial sports; RBSD, non-sparring non-competing MA's, etc. for example are Martial arts but do not have "sport" components. If someone can suggest to me a martial sport which is not also a martial art maybe this disucssion can progress (and please don't say football or hockey or something, those are not really martial at all, though they are rough and tough.)
    Martial sports are non lethal techniques used to win a trophy, Martial sports are a hobby or a job. Martial arts are lethal techniques which are meant to kill weather it be in a street or a war. Martial arts you have no one to protect you martial sports you can cry uncle and a referee will bail you out.:pity:
  7. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Spear Sister

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:46pm

    supporting membersupporting member
     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MARTIALSTUDANT
    Martial sports are non lethal techniques used to win a trophy, Martial sports are a hobby or a job. Martial arts are lethal techniques which are meant to kill weather it be in a street or a war. Martial arts you have no one to protect you martial sports you can cry uncle and a referee will bail you out.:pity:

    Dude...shutup, you dont know what you're talking about. The adults are trying to have a conversation and we don't need you chiming in with ignorance.
  8. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 3:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MARTIALSTUDANT
    Martial sports are non lethal techniques used to win a trophy, Martial sports are a hobby or a job. Martial arts are lethal techniques which are meant to kill weather it be in a street or a war. Martial arts you have no one to protect you martial sports you can cry uncle and a referee will bail you out.:pity:
    Sports aren't techniques, idiot.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  9. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 4:08pm


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MARTIALSTUDANT
    Martial sports are non lethal techniques used to win a trophy, Martial sports are a hobby or a job. Martial arts are lethal techniques which are meant to kill weather it be in a street or a war. Martial arts you have no one to protect you martial sports you can cry uncle and a referee will bail you out.:pity:
    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you participate in a "martial" sport then it is implied that you are learning skills which are applicable to making war, i.e. fighting techniques. If we agree to that, then even if you use your techniques to win trophies or as a hobby or job you are still learning to apply them as an 'art', a skillful application of talents etc.

    So your rebuttal is not very convincing here. I know of several MA's which are proud not to be sports but which do not teach "lethal techniques which are meant to kill weather (sic) it be in a street or a war." , such as Tai Chi for example (yes I'm sure some styles of TC have lethal moves, but not all).

    Furthermore, it is entirely possible to have a "sport" martial art which includes moves intended to kill but which do not kill because of padding or submission rules. A rear naked choke WILL kill your opponent if you want it to. Tapout rules prevent this, (thankfully). A hook to the jaw or temple CAN kill you, but padding and weight classes help to prevent this (thankfully).

    SO... long story short your argument just seems like a bunch of rhetoric - I'm not about to say that martial sports are better than martial arts in some way, but I most certainly will not say the reverse. The idea that something cannot have application as a sport without becoming watered down to non-martial status is a noble concern but ultimately unnecessary, as any boxer will be happy to show you.

    /rebuttal
  10. thehorned1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 4:11pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who cares what you call it? Sport/Art, whatever, if you learn to kick ass that = good. Does it matter whether you call a Jaffa Cake a Cake or a Biscuit? It still tastes nice whatever you call it. Names/Definitions not as important as results.
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