Wrestling for BJJ - Breaking down the turtle

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 10/04/2006 11:29pm

A while back, I made a thread about some wrestling I had stolen from a guy at my gym. It received little fanfare and fell into oblivion, likely because it made no sense in text alone.

But with my sudden binge of taking photos and plastering them all over the internet, I cornered Tim, the wrestler (and BJJ purple belt), and had him demonstrate them for the camera. I thought this was a great move ever since it was first used on me, and I thought it was a great example of how wrestling can be adapted to BJJ.

I will do my best to hamfistedly use wrestling terminology where appropriate, but I expect I'll get some of it wrong.

You are on top in referee's position, with your right arm hugging the waist and your left hand by the elbow.

From another angle, you can see how you need to have hip-to-hip contant and post with your rear leg to maintain pressure on the bottom man.

With your left arm, chop out their near elbow.

Action shot of their arm bending from the chop.

With them arm bent in, reach under the armpit and gets a two-on-one on the near arm.

A close-up of the two-on-one grip. Use this to pull their arm under them and break them down.

Once you have got the arm broken down, take your right arm out of their far side.

Reach under their near side and grabs their wrist.

In this close up, you can see that you maintain the grip on the forearm with your left hand, and your right hand (the near one) is now grabbing the wrist, palm up.

With this grip, keep pulling their arm out, like you want to bring it behind their back.

Keeps pulling the arm until it's out to their side, then sits out, dropping your left shoulder to the mat.

Keep pulling the arm behind the back to chicken wing it. This puts tremendous pressure on the shoulder and will force them to react or submit.

To relieve the pressure, they will have to roll over their left shoulder. As they do this, come to your knees. Release your left hand but keep holding their wrist with your right.

As they roll, keep contact with them to maintain control and prevent them from rolling to guard.

As they finish rolling, take side control with your left arm under their head.

But that's not all -- more fun is to be had. Remember your grip on the wrist.

You've still got it. It's now trapping their arm behind their back, which they are laying on. Which really, really sucks for them. The bottom man can do very little to escape side control until he frees his arm (which is very hard to do) while you're free to set up chokes or just keep circling towards north-south, pulling their arm with you.

Enjoy.

**GIJoe6186** · Posted On: 10/04/2006 11:48pm

Nice, I like to see wrestling get its fair share of coverage. I wrestled in high school and have been using this and similar attacks when the guy turtles, they work great to flatten him out and get side control or back mount.

Heres another move I use from wrestling to break turtle:

Your in referees position, hes turtled staying tight. Now in order to keep your hooks out, he usually stay tight and gets into a nice ball. From here you pick a side and move to it, forming a T with him. Your arm closest to his head reaches around his head and the arm near his legs reaches through his leg, your hand meet in the middle inderneath his belly. It helps to keep pressure on him by keeping your head stuck into his side. Lock your hands very tightly, bringing his knee to his head. Now you can roll him to his back in a cradle. Its very uncomfortable and I can usually get north-south, side mount or back control from here.

Cradles can also be used to counter a guy in turtle trying to rol into gaurd. As he tucks his head to role, just move with him and do the above. As long as you stay to his side and move with him, its easy to lock on a cradle.

Cradles just suck to be put in, hope it helps.

**MEGALEF** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 12:35am

If someones turtle is that loose I see no reason not to just put the hooks in instead.

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 12:36am

Humor me, shitfucker.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 12:45am

Originally Posted by MEGALEF

If someones turtle is that loose I see no reason not to just put the hooks in instead.

Because they clearly didn't shoot the photos with a loose turtle on purpose to show the necessary grips.

Hint: THIS WILL PROBABLY WORK ON SOMEONE WITH A TIGHT TURTLE TOO.

**GIJoe6186** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 1:04am

Yes, in wrestling, you keep your elbows very tight to your body, it keeps out the hooks just like in BJJ. In wrestling if a guy gets his hooks in, even one, your fucked big time.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 1:31am

you need to do a thread like this addressing the judo-rediculous flat turtle. (grab own collar, lay flat on tummy, Y your legs out)

Besides just building my deadlift up to Djimbesque proportions so I can just lift and ippon anyone doing this, that is.

**MEGALEF** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 3:50am

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean

Because they clearly didn't shoot the photos with a loose turtle on purpose to show the necessary grips.

Hint: THIS WILL PROBABLY WORK ON SOMEONE WITH A TIGHT TURTLE TOO.

I'd apologize for not thinking before posting. I feel my e-mouth has gotten rather large as of late.

But could you guys please not jump on EVERY opportunity to be total wankers.

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 9:07am

Originally Posted by Aesopian

You've still got it. It's now trapping their arm behind their back, which they are laying on. Which really, really sucks for them. The bottom man can do very little to escape side control until he frees his arm (which is very hard to do) while you're free to set up chokes or just keep circling towards north-south, pulling their arm with you.

Enjoy.

Speaking from experience, this side control SUCKS. Last Sunday I rolled with a 6'4" 265lb collegiate wrestler who rolls at my gym (I wanted to work on cardio). He got me into this side control almost exactly like Aeso posted with the roll over the kimura/chicken wing and everything.

I've been working on my turtle guard for sweeps and reversals for a little bit now and I know my turtle was pretty tight, i.e., knee to knee contact, elbows in to block the hook attempts, etc, etc. It didn't matter, he walked me right into the position and subbed me with it.

As with many other transitions constant pressure was key, he was tight the whole way through.

Good post Aeso.

**Kokujin** · Posted On: 10/05/2006 9:22am

I like to think of myself as a strong guy, so this type of of technique is perfect for those dweebs that are afraid of my huge portuguese-african powers of submission and go into turtle when they should play guard game like little behaved boys. Will use it to terrorize the peasants. Thanks and keep them coming