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  1. Tenebrous is offline
    Tenebrous's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 1:39pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Other than the music, that was awesome. I wish my parents had put me in a school that taught something like that when I was little instead of krotty. That kid will be a monster later if he sticks with it.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/06/2006 2:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Black 6
    Ok, let me phrase the question differently. The question isn't so much about teh belt, but the level of skill that it is supposed to designate (as well as the other belts). I didn't know about the part with the limited techniques, so I would assume that would be preventative of reaching a ranking that would allow others in the dojo to understand that he has a handle on the skills and techniques.

    We watched him grapple in the video. Hypothetical queston. Let's assume that they did limit the techniques that he could limit in competition, but he was taught the full curriculum in the dojo. Let's also assume that he is dedicated to the art, and trains for 5 or 6 years (I have no idea how old he is). Look at how he maneuvers now. It's pretty solid, he's not fooling around when it comes to technique (look at the transition around 0:49), good balance supporting both himself and his opponent while maneuvering, etc.

    Most arts would say it takes 3-4 years to earn a black belt, which many define not as mastery of the art, but a firm grasp of the basic elements and techniques of the art. Progression beyond that would be progression toward mastery, taking things that are not "taught", but instead applying the concepts to create things that are not "standard", and being able to not think in terms of "individual techniques", but instead having no techniques. For example, I'm sure that the Gracies and a lot of fighters don't "think" in the ring, definitely not like an amateur in training actually thinks about things.

    Going back to the kid. If we assume that he didn't just start and that at age 14 he's had 6 (dedicated) years in the art, where do we place him along the idea of standards. When can you say that he truly grasps the art?
    Dude, that's impossible to say. It's about performance, not time spent. And grasping of the art is not purely a function of time, but also of effort, average frequency of training per week, consistency of training, and natural abilities.

    Furthermore, a black belt may have a different meaning accross arts. For example, BBs in BJJ and Judo are not necesarily parallel or equivalent. Also, any art that on average awards a BB in 3 years or less, is bullshit IMO.

    Going back to the BBs, to attain a BB in BJJ it takes an average of 6 to 8 years whereas in Judo it may be 4 to 5 (I'm pulling those number out of my ass, just regurguitating what I've read before... somewhere on books and on the interweb.) This is assuming constant, consistent training and plenty of competitions. Some people are just naturally talented, and can progress at a much faster rate a-la BJ Penn, but the vast majority of mortals do not fall into that category.

    And that's for adults. Going back to the kid, I'd bet a kid that starts at the age of eight would eventually get his blue belt at the age of 16, and if he is awesome, will get his BB at 18. So that means, it will have taken him 10+ years to get his BB. Independently of that, such a kid would have been a monster on the mat by the time he was 14.

    -- the opinions expressed in this post are just coming out of the ass of El Mighty El Macho, scourge of chickens, plight of goaths, corruptor of women, and in no way reflect the thinking of the bullshido comunity, nor it may necessarily have the legal endorsement of the Eternally Undead God Helio, The Holy Kano and The Mighty Kimura, may I ride their nuts forever.
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    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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