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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd take out the guard pass. Have the theme be just mount. If you do want to show something else, show them the basic bear hug takedown onto mount as a counter to a punch so that they understand how they got to that position to start with.
    I like the idea of showing why it's bad to be mounted and showing them how to bridge escape out of it, so definately keep that in.

    Give them the general idea about mount.
    First off, how to keep the mount when:
    (i) The guy grabs you and tries to throw you off to one side (hook the head and post)
    (ii) The guy tries to throw you forward (hook the ankles under his back)
    (iii) The guy tries to bench press you off (swim your arms through his).

    Then show them the americana and the cross choke.


    Finally, people have a tendency to want to provide all of the answers and details straight away to beginners, but beginners cannot take all of that information in. Keep it simple and show them the basic principles without getting too bogged down in the details, however let them know there are more details for each position that will be covered in a later class.

    If the person walks away from the class feeling good that he learnt something immediately useful then they are likely to come back again.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    BJJ
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    The idea that standing passes are more advanced seems to be a myth put forward by people who aren't good at them.
    It depends what you mean by advanced. Standing passes are more "advanced" for newbs in that they're generally (a) faster; (b) open you up to all kinds of exceedingly complicated sweeps; and (c) present considerably more potential for injury from said sweeps.

    Mario Sperry prefers to do only passes on his knees; clearly a pass isn't less good or effective just because it's from the knees, or standing for that matter. But I think it's not unreasonable to consider standing passes more demanding for a newb to execute with skill under pressure, without worrying that he is going to get dropped on his head with some brutal complicated sweep -- or even just a good ol' double leg.
    Last edited by Zankou; 9/27/2006 9:27pm at .

  3. #13
    Locu5's Avatar
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    the beeg
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Zankou, you can double-leg from guard? Please elucidate.

    Aesopian, while I agree that standing guard passes should not be too much for a new student to learn, I would say that I think you have too much material for a first day class. I would stick to 3 moves, say side to mount, mount to americana, and upa, for example. I think you run the risk of overloading someone with all the stuff involved.
    Locu5
    combat sports hobbyist

  4. #14

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    Aesopian.com
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I didn't come up with this class and can't change it. Talk to Carlos Gracie Jr. if you have issues.

  5. #15
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Locu5
    Zankou, you can double-leg from guard? Please elucidate.
    I think he means that you can turn over and double leg them if they try a sloppy standing pass.

  6. #16

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    Jun 2006
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep. I do it all the time. You sit up to follow the guy as he attempts the standing pass. You're already one one knee up, basically sitting guard. All you have to do from there is whip your other foot behind you, like a square drill, and hit the double. Very effective. I generally do the "rotational" double where you push with your head in the middle of their chest and pull up on the back of their legs, rather than the more traditional wrestling double.

  7. #17

    Join Date
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    Aesopian.com
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For those of you worrying that this is too much to teach on the first day, look again at what I'm teaching:

    Upa.
    Guard pass.
    Taking mount.
    Americana.

    Maybe I'm biased and that really is too much, but when it's being taught, it's sure seems like just 4 basic techniques.

    Realize that I'm not overloading them with all of the details I give above. Those are just included to help the person teaching the lesson spot and troubleshoot common problems. When I teach these moves, I demonstrate and explain each very simply ("Grab the arm, pull it to your chest. Grab the armpit. Trap the foot. Bridge.") I'll let them drill it several times before I start correcting anything, since most people just need to try it a couple times to get a feel for it and they'll do their own self-corrections when the move is obviously not working. Only once I see that they're getting it do I start adding anything ("Good! Now make sure you're pulling down on his armpit to help roll him over.")

    The reason I like this lesson is because it gives them a quick introduction to BJJ, with almost all major aspects present (escapes, passing guard, dominant positions, submission, etc.). Even if you don't explain it as such and even if they don't really "get" these points right away, they were still exposed to them and given a good idea of what they'll be doing in BJJ.

    Having a standard first lesson like this has been very useful. For a while, Eduardo was having to teach at two schools and sometimes I would end up running class. If I got a new student, I was not experienced enough to make up my own lesson, so I would just run through the above and it always went well.

    For every first class I've seen, I could think of counter-arguments to them. Let's teach mount -- no, a new person will never have mount since they'll be in bad positions so they need escapes more. Okay, let's teach escapes -- no, that's not fun enough so they won't get what BJJ is about. Okay, let's teach kimuras, they're fun -- no, it's bad to start people on submissions...

    Pretty much everything in BJJ is going to be weird and awkward for a new person, and they'll likely forget it all after their first class. So just pick something and go for it. I've come to think that it doesn't really matter what you teach as long as whatever it is gives them a good idea of what BJJ is like and makes them see that there is something there to learn.

  8. #18
    Locu5's Avatar
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    the beeg
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Zankou, yeah, I was still a bit sleepy when I glibbly replied. Good follow-up.

    Aesopian, are you going to run this a for a while on newbs and see how it pans out?
    Locu5
    combat sports hobbyist

  9. #19

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    Aesopian.com
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It has been run on newbs for years now and it's worked well. It was the first lesson I learned in BJJ and I still value it.

  10. #20

    Join Date
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    BJJ
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If this is something that has been in place for years, from CG, Jr. and presumably used throughout the Gracie Barra chain, and you have no ability to change or modify it, why exactly did you post it?

    Where you looking for comments on it or were you just posting it in a general forum for your personal reference?

    I have no opinion really one way or the other; it looks like a fine lesson plan, I'm just confused as to why it was posted when you seem a bit defensive about the suggestions and responses.

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