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  1. Varangian Guard is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 1:02am


     Style: Shuai Jiao/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Recently started boxing

    ...And when I spar, I can barely see the other dude hit me. I seriously can barely see their punches. Do I develop better reflexes as time goes on...? Cause I suck right now. I keep getting my ass beat by some smaller and weaker; but more experienced and aggresive guys.

    Secondly, after starting boxing, I can't imagine how the protagonist in movies react so fast; such in which they block hits like nothin, do cool moves, locks, and throws. (I used to think that stuff was actually possible.) Anyway, I've been taking Shuai Jiao, and I honestly can't imagine blocking/countering a strike and throwing the other guy in a full contact situation. That goes for any art based on throwing, i.e. Judo, etc. When we spar in Shuai Jiao, its pretty much just like Judo, we can grab, push, etc, but no striking. Yes, we spar hard, but the lack of striking leads to a false sense of reality; in which you believe you can easily counter and throw someone thats trying to knock your head off. If you add in striking to a Shuai Jiao/Judo match, I don't think I'll be able to throw well at all. Unless some idiot throws a punch and leaves his arm right out there.

    So to sum all this up:

    1. I suck and I can barely see my opponent's punch coming. Will my reflexes and "eye power" (for lack of better term) improve? All my dodges and blocks have come mostly from luck.

    2. Do you think throws can be utilized well in a full contact situation that includes strikes? (i.e. UFC, Pride, other MMA, and da 5tr33tz). I have watched quite a few matches, and have rarely seen throws that came as a counter for a punch; as is usually demonstrated in application in throwing arts.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Varangian Guard; 10/07/2006 1:37am at .
  2. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 1:24am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't believe I am posting twice in strikestan forum, coz' I do not consider myself of having any skill in boxing nor striking.

    However, I had the opportunity to spar with a boxer, could be Muay Thai fellow, but in our friendly, he did not seem to use his legs or knees. YES, I AGREE, those jabs and hooks are very fast, it is impossible for me to do any technique I learned in kata practice. I took some body shots but I clinch very quickly and did take down and finish the fight on the ground.

    Yes, you can throw from clinch. Yes you can do take-down from clinch. Yes you can mount him and subsequently Ground n Pound, depending on the pre-agreed rule set.

    If you add punch and kicks to Judo/shuai jiao.... it will probably look like a UFC/MMA type sparring.

    GMW.
  3. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 5:29am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Varangian Guard
    ...And when I spar, I can barely see the other dude hit me. I seriously can barely see their punches. Do I develop better reflexes as time goes on...? Cause I suck right now. I keep getting my ass beat by some smaller and weaker; but more experienced and aggresive guys.
    This is the key right here. You will get better as time goes on, only natural. Even Muhammad Ali was a beginner at one point. Boxing and Shuai Chiao seems like a good mix to me, as from what I've seen of Shuai Chiao it's a lot like Judo.

    2. Do you think throws can be utilized well in a full contact situation that includes strikes? (i.e. UFC, Pride, other MMA, and da 5tr33tz). I have watched quite a few matches, and have rarely seen throws that came as a counter for a punch; as is usually demonstrated in application in throwing arts.
    Go check out Karo Parisyan.
  4. oni is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 5:46am


     Style: KARATE / MUAY THAI

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    a lot of boxing is attribute based and will therfore take a while to develop. regarding applying throws, all depends on the punch coming in. if its a jab, no, if its a drunken swing or step through punch, much more likely to pull it off...
  5. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 6:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Generally in an MMA/striking situation, people will throw after attaining the clinch, rather than try to throw them straight off a punch.
  6. Seraphim is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 10:04am


     Style: Karate, Sadism, Violence.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Varangian Guard

    1. I suck and I can barely see my opponent's punch coming. Will my reflexes and "eye power" (for lack of better term) improve? All my dodges and blocks have come mostly from luck.


    Thanks in advance.

    The obvious answer is that yes, your reflexes and eye power will improve with pratice. Why the **** did you ask such a dumbass question?

    On a nicer note, It's not really a matter of 'seeing the punch'. Watch their chest. It will tell you which way they are shifting their weight, where their hands are and where their hands aren't. I've sparred/boxed enough that sometimes it's like reading an open book. And...I still get tagged like a chump.

    In summary, practice makes perfect. Now stop asking:new_321: :icon_bril
    Last edited by Seraphim; 10/07/2006 10:44am at .
  7. Seraphim is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 10:48am


     Style: Karate, Sadism, Violence.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I feel that I may have been heavy handing in my response. You are a newbie, the other people aren't. Expect to get tooled.


    You will of course get better. If you fail to get better with constant practice, you may want to consider picking up knitting or ceramics.
  8. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 10:49am


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim

    On a nicer note, It's not really a matter of 'seeing the punch'. Watch their chest. It will tell you which way they are shifting their weight, where their hands are and where their hands aren't. I've sparred/boxed enough that sometimes it's like reading an open book. And...I still get tagged like a chump.
    Exactly; the problem may not be your reflexes, it may be where you're looking. If you boxing coach is halfway decent, if you ask him where you should look during a fight he will probably say the chest (though some say shoulders - not my style). If you watch someone's torso rather than their face or hands, you will see the punches coming MUCH faster. (You may be doing this already and still having trouble in which case either your reflexes need some improvement or your sparring partners are very fast/non-telegraphic).

    Do not despair! when I started it was very, very hard to see and block incoming strikes (gets easier when your opponent gets winded), but once I remembered to watch the chest, keep my eyes OPEN and ON THE OPPONENT at all times, and conditioned my slip and block reflexes, I was able to dodge nearly one punch in fifty! Today I've improved even further and can dodge one punch in forty. Someday you will be (almost) as good as me, if you try your best.
  9. Varangian Guard is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 1:13pm


     Style: Shuai Jiao/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    Yeah, I realize this was a pretty dumb question, but hey, I'm a noob. Its just that when I first sparred in boxing, I was very suprised at how fast the punches were coming.

    As for throwing, yes, I can definetely see them being pulled off in clinches and the sort. After all, thats pretty much the usual way of throwing in Shuai Jiao and Judo matches. But like I said, when we are shown the theoretical applicattion, its often blocking and countering a strike. And in these throwing arts, we don't spar with striking, so we never get to test that out. Once I started boxing, I realized it would be very hard to counter a proper punch from someone trying beat you. But yes, like someone mentioned, if dealing with an untrained guy who just swings wildly, it'll be easier.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by Varangian Guard; 10/07/2006 1:19pm at .
  10. NoMan is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/07/2006 8:23pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, BJJ, M.T.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My Judo coach also takes Kyokushin Karate and I've seen him sweep and throw numerous people. However, I've never seen it off of a punch like some martial arts teach you. Generally, he gets the clinch, smothers them, and manipulates their body to obtain the sweep/throw he's looking for. It's pretty fantabulous to watch.

    It's hard enough to use the basic defenses that boxers use against a skilled opponent. (Catching, blocking, slipping), each of which involves only a minute amount of body movement. Trying to counter a punch with a throw is ludicrous, IMHO.

    Straight Blast Gym does a drill you might try with your friends. Person A will only be allowed to punch and defend a takedown with sprawl/underhooks, whatever, but they can't use any more wrestling moves than that. Person B will try to get the takedown using any wrestling moves available, but they can't strike. This will give you a realistic idea of what it's like trying to takedown an opponent if they are striking back. (With appropriate protective gear of course.)

    Don't sweat the sucky reflex thing. It's just the reality of the situation, training equals dominance, not training equals suckage. Stick with it and you'll do okay.
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