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  1. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2006 9:52am


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Do we lose the basics?

    I competed in my second tournament a couple of weeks ago and for all purposes it was the first taste of serious competition, much of it as preparation for the nationals in November.
    Managed to see almost all the fights from white to brown and the strange thing, at least for me, was that most of the fighters resorted to what I like to call, the "high flying death defying techniques" during the fights. They almost every time would prefere to use a complicated and risky technique instead of something simple and almost fool proof. Several times, they had the chance to secure a normal choke, a normal armbar and even triangles and again and again they would let it all go downhill in favor of something not truly suited for the moment.

    I counted at least 10 guys that lost their matches because of dumbass moments like those.
    Example...Guy A had Guy B in the "100kg position", real strong position for him at the time...well, instead of trying to mount, or secure a lapel choke, like one that Aesopian showed in here before, he decides that he would rather do a cartwheel to the other side and secure the position there, without securing Guy B. Result?
    Did the carthwheel, got his ass sweeped in mid air, mounted and armbared.

    This risky type of moves went on and actually got worse as we climbed the belt ladder, with purple belts giving positions away like candy. And before you start flaming that I'm a white belt and don't know ****, at least I still know the difference between "given" and "taken" positions.

    The "game" gets complex as we move and learn, that's a fact. But do we get lost with so many techniques that we get blind to the obvious along the way? After the rubber guards, the "put my foot in your gi and spin it clockwise and sweep you while holding your pinky" do we lose the basics?
    Or maybe it's all a matter of stage fright?

    In a side note...some teachers complaint that the bjj teaching in Portugal is not really done in deep, without true basics and only with flashy techniques to impress the students. Maybe that's what happened...
  2. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2006 9:59am

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     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How new is BJJ to Portugal? How many black belts do you have teaching? Do you have a lot of clubs run by lower belts? These are the questions that come to mind when I hear stories like this.
  3. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2006 10:59am

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't see a lot of flashy moves in America. You will see some NEW stuff occassionally. Maybe even some flashy new stuff. But the overwhelming majority are basics done better than the other guy.

    Perhaps you misread what was happening at times or looking to see what you wanted to see.

    Another thing to realize is that oftentimes you cannot simply apply a basic technique on someone because they know it just as well as you. You need to set it up by creating an opening in your opponents defense - and sometimes you have to take big risks to get that opening. I see this a lot in black belt matches. Nobody wants to make a mistake so it becomes a boring stalemate until one guy finally just says screw it - and goes for something - which is then interpretted as a 'giving something away' when he loses for his initiative.
  4. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2006 7:42pm


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    Another thing to realize is that oftentimes you cannot simply apply a basic technique on someone because they know it just as well as you. You need to set it up by creating an opening in your opponents defense - and sometimes you have to take big risks to get that opening. I see this a lot in black belt matches. Nobody wants to make a mistake so it becomes a boring stalemate until one guy finally just says screw it - and goes for something - which is then interpretted as a 'giving something away' when he loses for his initiative.
    I now that from the tapes and videos that I see. Unless you're talking about a fighter who's willing to give it all in the name of a exciting fight, it seems like you're watching a match of chess. Some of the fights consist of one fall or a sweep and then simply maintaining a position for the duration of the match, with the ocasional "fake atempt" to simulate an attack from the guy with the advantage. That's not cool in my book, but I'm a big boy who knows how things work in the real world. For some it all boils down to winning and getting the sponsors, good fight or not. I'm sure there will be a time when I'll hear people yelling from the side to "play the game" and stall.

    When I talk about the basics, I mean it in situations where you could have simply have ended or changed the match with any of those "stupid" sweeps, chokes and passing of the guard. Instead, it's like they forgot the basics, choosing instead the complexity of techniques that spell defeat. That's just my view of things. Of course I understand there are things that won't work like a charm. Believe me, I've tried in my last competition a couple of sweeps and the guy just postured and it was back to the drawing board to me, until I started doing what I was told and do setups for other stuff. But in the end what saved my butt in every fight was the basics...the sweeps, arm drags, lapel chokes and "americanas".
  5. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2006 8:02pm


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    How new is BJJ to Portugal? How many black belts do you have teaching? Do you have a lot of clubs run by lower belts? These are the questions that come to mind when I hear stories like this.

    As I know it bjj ariived in Portugal in 1995 with a big wave of brazilian imigrants that started teaching classes in gyms to make ends meet. UFC, "vale tudo" fights and bjj weren't knwon in here, so many people were unaware of the possibilities of bjj as a sport or a self defense tool. It was somewhat of a false start, with a lot of scandals, money problems and teachers running away back to brazil, but a couple of years later it started growing up again and now there's a lot of young people who know bjj, mma and don't look like "duh" when they ask what you do for a workout.

    In the last count made by our federation there were 11 black belts running schools, with 7 brown belts acting as co-instructors or full instructors. For example, the instructor for Gracie Barra Lisbon is a brown belt.
    He have 8 purple belts in instructor positions or as co-instructors and only a blue belt as a co-instructor.
  6. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2006 10:17pm


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Villain
    It honestly just sounds like you don't know what you're seeing.
    Well, it could be "white belt syndrome". But I hear other people talking about the same stuff. Oh well...as long as I keep winning.lol

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