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  1. #1

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    Hey everyone, new here, have some questions

    Came upon this site while reading answers on Yahoo Answers about Martial Arts websites. Looks like a fun place.

    I've been training for about 6 months in Wing Chun but that's mainly because it's close to my house. I do want to start training in MMA or at least BJJ, but those schools in my area are a bit more pricey.

    I'd love to go to a Throwdown sometime, but I haven't gotten to the belt level to do sparring yet so I know I won't do very well.

    Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself. My username is taken from Neal Stephenson's "Anathem", if any of you have read that. Would really like to meet up with some Bullshido members in person and shoot the **** if there are any in the Bay Area.

    Cheers!

    Rick

  2. #2

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    Hi Fra Lio!

    I do some Wing Chun to in Jeet Kune Do! Since you're looking to do MMA, Jeet Kune Do would be good transition for you.

  3. #3

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    Hi Fra Lio, welcome to the boards!

    Could you tell us a bit more about your Wing Chun training; what your classes usually consist of and what belt level you have to achieve in order to spar? What sort of contact level do you train at right now?

    Also, what's important to you in a martial art - what do you hope to get out of your training?

  4. #4
    goodlun's Avatar
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    If BJJ or MMA is to pricy for you, Judo is usually a cheaper alternative that will still give you the aliveness that is needed as well as a good tool bag to handle a fight at some of the most important ranges (clinch & ground).

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katje View Post
    Could you tell us a bit more about your Wing Chun training; what your classes usually consist of and what belt level you have to achieve in order to spar? What sort of contact level do you train at right now?
    None yet, need to get my first belt rank!

    Also, what's important to you in a martial art - what do you hope to get out of your training?
    Not sure, of course everybody wants to be a bit of a badass to some degree I guess. Plus, I figured that if Wing Chun was a good enough foundation for Bruce Lee, then it's a good start for me.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fra Lio View Post
    Not sure, of course everybody wants to be a bit of a badass to some degree I guess. Plus, I figured that if Wing Chun was a good enough foundation for Bruce Lee, then it's a good start for me.
    Well there's your first problem. Bruce Lee was a badass, but he was primarily a movie star and is extremely overhyped. Amatuer boxers and mma fighters of his weight class today can easily whip him around.

    A "good" FIGHTING style will work to help you defend yourself in a streetfight situation. This assumes that you are in a fight and are going to fight. Thus, mere avoiding tactics and fleeing are not considered. If they were, the 200m dash as well as minor parkour would be the best style for "self-defense".

    However, a more "effective" fighting style works against other trained fighters of varying disciplines.

    Also, Wing Chun is notoriously bad here; in any place other than Newbietown, you'd get much flaming and call outs for choosing a bad style. For more details, you can easily use the Search function of the site.

    However, for a short, simplified, breakdown, it works like this:
    Given: To have a good martial art of any style, it must be trained alive.
    Given: To be training alive, you must spar with contact.
    Wing Chun is one of "those" styles known for claiming to be too deadly or too dangerous to spar with heavy contact.
    Thus, Wing Chun is a bad style.

    For the Wing Chun practitioners who do claim spar heavily:
    Given: For the most EFFECTIVE (notice, not just "good") martial art, the art should be able to fight and win against other styles in it's category. For instance, Stand-up, Clinch/Takedowns, Grappling, Stick, Knife, etc.
    Wing Chun practitioners who have said they spar heavily are unfortunately many times beaten by even beginner boxers and kickboxers.
    Thus, Wing Chun is a bad standup style. They also can't compete in any of the other categories as they do not clinch, very lightly "takedown", and don't grapple.

    Please note that all proof for said facts must come from video proof, not anecdotal evidence.

    And there are many many videos on how a Wing Chun practitioner may counter said attack by another trained fighter with a very specific, complex, series of moves. However, so far, none have been able to pull it off in a video of an actual match.

    There are also an unfortunate number of Wing Chun instructors being beaten by very new students of other disciplines, causing the style to lose all credibility of any sort. The more common ones include Boxing vs Wing Chun and Muay Thai vs Wing Chun. UFC 5 is also a prime example of Wing Chun which does not work.

    Another recent loss of face: There was a large talking "Master" Randy K. Li who proposed a challenge to fight in a no-holds-barred contest, but backed down as soon as one (who was then switched by proxy due to legal bounds to a legally acceptable fighter) accepted the challenge from him. He claimed the opponent, who was a MMA fighter, had moral and ethical issues and thus could not fight with a man of God such as himself.

    The saddest part being that Randy is still respected in the Wing Chun society, which you can see by taking a quick visit to his facebook page. He also has the challenge still up, continues to talks smack, and calls himself "the Master", "Master Li", and "Master Randy K. Li" in third person.

  7. #7
    slamdunc's Avatar
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    Welcome to Bullshido. Cuddles thesis has a lot of merit, but as long as you see the Chun for what it is, you can always cross-train some grappling, Judo or MMA. Enjoy the site.
    Foom!


  8. #8
    goodlun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fra Lio View Post
    Not sure, of course everybody wants to be a bit of a badass to some degree I guess. Plus, I figured that if Wing Chun was a good enough foundation for Bruce Lee, then it's a good start for me.
    A better thing to consider is how much Wing chun there is in JKD. To get a better assessment of how much of a base it really is for JKD.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fra Lio View Post
    None yet, need to get my first belt rank!
    Hmmmm, that would raise alarm bells for most of the people who post here. When learning new techniques it is important to test them in a "live" situation - that means performing the techniques with the speed and power you intend to use in a real fight situation.

    For instance, I recently started eskrima, which is Filipino stick fighting. I was doing bag work from my first lesson, and started sparring after my sixth. It gave me a real understanding of what it would be like to try and perform these techniques against a resisting opponent and where I am in the skill continuum (I suck) among other things. Without that constant testing though, it's so easy to fall into bad habits and have an inflated sense of the effectiveness of the techniques, your ability to perform them in a fight, and how you'll deal with the pressure of someone who is cracking strikes off or grappling against you. And that pressure, believe me, is no small thing.

    If you're not even drilling your techniques with full power, then you may want to take a step back and look at what you're actually getting from the style & your school.

    Not sure, of course everybody wants to be a bit of a badass to some degree I guess.
    Nothing wrong with that, you'll find plenty of people here in the same camp! If you want to be a fighter though, as opposed to just getting fit or learning about a culture or whatever it is, then this school you're with now is probably not for you. If funds are tight then instead of cross-training it may be worth considering dropping the Chun and going for the BJJ or MMA gyms. Most places have a free/cheap first class or two, so you'll be able to check out the facilities and the different classes & styles on offer before you make up your mind.

    I'm sure it sucks to be told so many people that your school isn't a good choice for training, but it really is meant in the spirit of trying to be helpful. We wouldn't be doing you any favours in the long run if we didn't offer an honest opinion on the style's strengths & shortcomings.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fra Lio View Post
    Not sure, of course everybody wants to be a bit of a badass to some degree I guess. Plus, I figured that if Wing Chun was a good enough foundation for Bruce Lee, then it's a good start for me.
    But all you would need then is just a little trapping, the straight blast, and pretty much forget everything else and go learn BJJ, kickboxing, & kali.

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