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  1. SimonBelmont is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 12:12am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @DerAuslander108:

    Where did you learn so much about the history of Korean arts? Can you point me to any good resources?
  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 12:16am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    You make very good points and I only have my words to prove what I'm saying about the history of Hwa Rang Do.
    Without a historical basis, your words mean nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    I really don't care if you believe it or not, I know I do.
    To believe lies in the face of contradictory proof makes you a fool.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    Korean martial arts history (or any Korean history) is hard to sort out due to the Japanese occpupation.
    The Japanese occupation had little effect on the distortion of Korean martial arts history.

    The distortion of Korean martial arts history can largely be blamed on Lee Joobang, the early South Korean military junta, and the creation of the WTF.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    Much literature was destroyed, temples were burned, and their culture was almost completely oppressed.
    Not almost.

    It was completely oppressed.


    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    Thanks a lot Yi Dynasty and confucianism for disbanding the Korean military...
    Completely wrong. The Yi Dynasty did not disband the military. The only surviving Korean military martial arts manual, the Muyedobotongji, is a product of the Yi Dynasty. It is worth noting that the one sword form found in the Muyedobotongji that is attributed to the Hwa Rang...is not taught in Hwa Rang Do. So much for authenticity...

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    There are more texts our there but they are hard to translate because of the use of Chinese characters, we can get into that more if you want.
    Please do. Let's get into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    I've heard independant sources both confirm and deny HRD's claims. A good book is "Living the Martial Way" by Forrest E Morgan. A good read and it talks a little about HRD. Check it out.
    Morgan's book is not a work of historical research, but rather his own philosophical outlook on being a martial artist. There are many historical inaccuracies in it, and should not be used as a source for historical information.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    As far as hapkido goes all I know is when we were in Korea the top raking HKD Grandmasters were present at a banguet and most assuridly lowered their head to Do Joo Nim, if you know Korean culture you know what that means.
    I have heard this story from about four different sources, each with variation. It is anecdotal evidence. I want the names of these Hapgido masters who were present at this banquet.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    Also Do Joo Nim was given the Lion's award in Korea which signified him as the highest ranking martial artist in the country, this was awaded to him by the president and evidence of this is documented.
    Show me the evidence, because the only evidence I've ever seen comes straight from the WHRDA.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    Oh and yes Joo Sang Lee did open a Hapkido school that was before Do Joo Nim was given permssion to teach HRD, that's why the Lee brothers trained in HKD, is there a mix, maybe, probably.
    A more pointed question, why did Lee Joosang stop teaching?

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    But I can tell you this, the Hwarang did exist, that is certainly documented.
    The Hwarang did exist, but they were not the warrior caste the WHRDA makes them out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwarang76
    Hwa Rang Do did not, that was Do Joo Nim's creation for the martial and healing skills he had acquired in his training. Make sense??
    I'm sorry, I thought you'd just said that Hwa Rang Do was based on the martial arts used by the Hwarang? Contradiction here?
  3. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 12:18am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SimonBelmont
    @DerAuslander108:

    Where did you learn so much about the history of Korean arts?
    I've had some really good teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonBelmont
    Can you point me to any good resources?
    Start out with the Muyedobotongji. Turtle Press has an English edition.
  4. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 6:06am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah good that DerAuslander is here. Congrats on the baby.

    This guy has really drunken deep the purple Kool-aid of HRD.

    Just going to say this peice and let DA and Miguk handle the rest:

    Martial arts....

    India----->China----->Korea------>Japan---->Okinawa------>Thailand etc....there's adaptation and personalization at every stop. (and some say it started in Africa actually)
    This shows a porfound ingnorance of MA and the history of each country. The FACT of the matter is each country developed their OWN MA indegenious to them alone. There was some, not much as the uneducated like to say, mixing due to trade between countries but thats it. Okinawa had NO influence in Thai MA. Korea had NO influence on JMA, in fact its the other way around since TKD is based on Shotokan Karate which is well know since General Choi even stated it. Basicly you've said alot of things that are wrong and you really need to go forth and do some real research on it.

    As for Grappling being just a SPORT. This is more ignorance. Grappling has been the bases for military training throughtout history. Greeks and Romans used wrestling and pankration to train their soldiers. Germanic tribes used various forms of grappling and kampfringen (liter WAR WRESTLING) was essintial part for armored fighting in Medival times. Of cours the Japanese had Jujutsu, which is indegenious to japan so korea nor china had nothing to do with it. In modern times the two most powerful military forces in the world, Russia and the US, use grappling for thier sodliers. Russians created CAMBO which is a synthesis of Judo and several native forms of wrestling. The US used BJJ, Judo and Wrestling in the form of MAC (see style feild) along with others. UNLIKE HRD MAC has been used and PROVEN effective in actual combat in Iraq and Afgahninstan. You can start picking up GRAPPLING Magazine and read accounts reported by Matt Larsen (SFC ret and founder of MAC for the Army).

    "There are no superior martial arts....only superior martial artists!!!"
    ----source not remembered
    Very wrong. There are indeed Martial Arts that are better than others, always have been. Its seems that those who train in questionable MA tend to cling to this. You know if they would hold a fights and let various MArtist come in and we can see if pple form certian MA fair better than others we could kill this myth......oh wait thats happened already and we did see that pple form certian MA did better than others.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. Sofa-King What is offline

    Featherweight

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    Texas
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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 1:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    pwn3d!!!!!


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sofa
    AKA Gafanhoto
  6. Wolf is offline
    Wolf's Avatar

    T3h R34l Gangnam Style!

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    Indianapolis, IN
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    3,540

    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 2:26pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, hwarang...your turn. Lets see what kind of evidence you have for your claims.
  7. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 3:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Holy crap...the oft cited phrase of "Lurk more post less n00b!!!" has never been more appropriate than in this case.

    It is probably good that Der was late to this sparring match of Korean Martial History, otherwise hwarang76 would not have put out enough rope to hang himself as thoroughly as he did.

    I would say its hwarang76's move but I'm sure he'll just come back screaming at Alex rather than addressing the obvious historical inaccuracies pointed out by Der....game, set, and match to the guy who lives with three hot Asian ladies.
  8. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 3:47pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    game, set, and match to the guy who lives with three hot Asian ladies.
    Used to. I moved back home a couple months ago to save up money for the move to Seoul.

    I feel much safer here. Rooming with two Chinese girl and a Viet girl who all ended up cycling at the same time (and I don't mean the kind with wheels) just ended up being extremely hazardous to my health.
  9. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 3:49pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Ah good that DerAuslander is here. Congrats on the baby.
    It's good to be back. Thanks for the congrats. I'll post some pics later of me feeding the baby with a bottle while drinking out of my own bottle.
  10. Miguksaram is offline
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    Day Tripper/Dream Weaver

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    Illinois
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    Posted On:
    10/18/2006 5:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    Damn...I leave for a few days, and the whole place goes to Hell.

    Do I need to get involved here?
    Hello brodah....You are more than welcome to step in.. Just watch where you step..there is a lot of bs on the ground. :D
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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