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  1. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 2:35am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't agree with the idea that fighters of today know more than the fighters back in the day. Sure, if you look at old Westerns the fighting in those movies sucked but that's because they were actors.

    John Wayne was a draft dodger (he married a woman with a bunch of kids so he wouldn't get sent to WW II) and he was a boy named Marion who went to acting school and wore tights and did Shakespeare. He wasn't a tough guy - he just played one in the movies.

    While we are on actors, Sly Stalone left the country to teach girls gym class in Italy during the Vietnam war. He wasn't Rambo. He wasn't a boxer either. He was a porn star though.

    Anyway, back to the point. You are claiming that Roman gladiators who faught for their lives, Greek pankrationists who were so good that legend has it they wrestled lions (when men were no longer a challenge) and vetran soldiers on the field of battle in the most brutal wars in all of history .. back when there were no guns .. and there were career soldiers who spent their lives marching across the world conquering countries .. they all didn't know how to fight - but some guys who goes to a dojo and breaks boards is great? I don't agree with that.

    At the same time I seriously doubt that people were fighting in the streets every day in Okinawa back in the day.

    Funakoshi put some good kata together. They aren't perfect but they are decent. You have to remember that the pinan are smaller versions of his original kata that he broke down for the kids in the school system to practice.

    I don't think even he would want the kata to be sacred cows though. I doubt he was arrogant enough to think he was a god.

    As for Kung Fu forms, I like watching them. There are some really cool techniques in there if you know what they are for - some of them have been around for maybe a thousand years. (Karate kata have been around for only 200 years) You see the same moves people use today.

    I like both Karate and Kung Fu. I am not trying to degrade them. I am just saying, the kata are not all-powerful, all-encompassing and perfect.

    I will agree that with the communication networks we have today people have more of an opportunity to be educated about all the different styles and ranges of combat. But if you look at some of the oldest systems, everything we know today was known back then.

    Crap, I forgot to send that stuff to Asia on pankration .. I better go do that. Later.
  2. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 2:58am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >At the same time I seriously doubt that people were fighting in the streets every day in Okinawa back in the day.

    It wasn't an everday thing but unlike today if someone thought you karate was a joke they would come and kick your butt to prove it. So before you went and called yourself master (which is really against asian culture to appoint yourself a title it is given to you) you best be able to throw down.

    Kata are a great training tool but not the end all and be all to a system.

    As for Kung Fu forms not all of them are pretty and flashy. I would never win a form competition with the orignal four Baji forms. They are considered "UGLY" but they do help you learn the proper movements for the art.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  3. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 12:16pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh man this is going to HURT me PHYSICALLY but I have to agree with Marty......

    "Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  4. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 12:53pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PD,

    What exactly do you agree with?


    Oh to get back to the orginal question for 9Chambers.
    The opening move in Empi is NOT an armbar on the ground it is a leg scoop and throw as detailed by Funakoshi.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  5. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 4:25pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The fact that we HAVE come along way since the days in Okinawa. Empty hand fighting has evolved just like all other types of combat.

    "Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  6. jing shen gou is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2002 10:07pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    really? please explain to me the difference between the takedown i use today, and the one that some (Pick nationality/region) warrior used 100, or even 2,000 years ago?
    How has it evolved? its the same thing.
    explain the diference between the pung i use today and thhe one used on the battlefeilds of yesteryear. what and where is the diference peedee, I dont really think its evolved all that much.
    schoolyard fights are the same as they were a century ago, and street fights are the same as they were a century ago.
    really the only evolution is the inclusion of guns.

    breathing is the center, if your breathing is wrong then your body wil be messed up.
  7. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/07/2002 1:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >The fact that we HAVE come along way since the days in Okinawa. Empty hand fighting has evolved just like all other types of combat.

    I really don't think so. Close quater combat hasn't really evolved that much. There are only so many ways the human body can throw a punch, kick, or grapple. What you are seeing the the reinvention of the wheel. All the so called "NEW" approches are really the return to the begining of a cycle. Everyone advocates crosstraining now. But history tells us that the same thing had been going on. The who PURE, one style MA, thing is fairly recent. You didn't find someone who trained in just ONE art back then.

    Pple were saying the UFC/NHB thing was NEW but was it? NO. It has gone on before. Now it is televised and SAFER than it used to be. PANCRASE is becoming an Olympic event. Just like it had been in the orginal Olympic games.

    My dad always used this saying, "The more things change the more they stay the same." I believe he was right.

    I would still love to say a old time battlefeild hardened warrior against today's modern MA athelete. I think it is obvious who would win.


    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!




    Edited by - Asia on September 07 2002 01:47:07
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. Choke is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2002 1:50am


     Style: World 10-3 Ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think anyone on this forum is really qualified to judge whether a kata is good or not. Noone here has developed katas that are practiced world wide.

    Cast in the name of God. Ye not guilty.
    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw
  9. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2002 4:30am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do think Funakoshi was fairly brilliant. I don't think anyone should consider them comprehensive and perfect though.

    Everyone has the right to their opinion. In my opinion locking joints makes you vulnerable. You are right, I am not a judge. I'm just saying what I think.
  10. RW is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2002 11:15am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ring fighting has evolved, street fighting has not.
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