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  1. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2002 1:14pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What do you think of the controversial interpratation of Empi/Eunbi as a set up for a throw and an arm bar on the ground? Some people say that crazy one-legged stance is really representative of an arm bar on the ground. Do you think its true?

    Is it just a modern revision or do you think it was originally put in the kata to symbolize an arm bar on the ground? Should people come up with their own interpratation of kata as opposed to studying only the traditinal and accepted interpretation? Which is more valuable, tradition or innovation? Should both interpretations be welcome in the classroom?
  2. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2002 1:53pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most of todays interpretations are B.S.

    People try and find ANYTHING just to sound diferent and knowledgable.

    "Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  3. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2002 4:25am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The interpretation I mentioned was something that one of George Dillman's students named Clark teaches. He taught pressure points stuff here in town at the YMCA for a while when I was in college. He was also the professor at the college before Jason took over.

    My friend Brent went to Clark's school for a while so I went with him to see what it was all about. It was pretty hokey stuff mostly.

    The arm bar is an interesting idea but I'm not sure if it holds water. There are different one-legged positions in Karate kata and not all of them look like arm bars. Clark is always talking about the hidden meanings in the kata. I think he overestimates the guys that put those things together.

    The kata are not magical and perfect. Some guy made them up. He was a human being. Trying to pretend like they are perfect is just delusional. Trying to make up excuses for Funakoshi or pretend only some 80 year old guy in the mountains understands the true application of the kata is just lame.

    Sometimes a movement in a form is exagerated to teach follow-through or its there for building flexibility. It is really funny to watch movies and see people fighting like they are doing a kata. Without being taught the breakdowns people get totally confused and do crazy stuff.

    In these McDojos all over the place, a kid is 12 and hears the breakdown once right before nap-time and doesn't have a clue what you just said. That is so wrong.

    I think kata (with proper breakdowns) can be a good training tool - but they are just not perfect by any means. You can't rely on just kata. The kata are just some rough syllabus for training.
  4. marty_farty is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2002 6:46am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    kata only address very simple basic attacks.
    cosidering how old the kata are and how they fought back then. kata was not developed to defend against "a skilled fighter in 2002"

    a skilled fighter in okinawa back in 1905 was anybody who could throw a kick or punch... we have come a long long way.

    traditional kata are ok for basic grabs, holds and attacks but if you want to defend against somebody who already knows how to fight then your training method must match that.

    basic karate moves are fine against a bully who grabs your jacket at school...but if said bully is trained in jujitsu and wants to throw johnny on the pavement and stomp him then yes johnny purple belt in karate could be in trouble.

    having said all that, I hope you guys who are teaching young men are also teaching them to not abuse their skills. in theory, we should not have good martial artists going around picking fights...kids or adults.

    this is why the art must include not only "fighting" but Zen, Ken and Demashi.





    Edited by - marty_farty on September 03 2002 06:50:41
  5. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2002 6:02am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was a really good post marty. I am impressed. I didn't know you were so into the ethics and spiritual side of MA. I agree. Spider-Man would say, "With great power comes great responsability." :)

    I see some odd stuff in kata sometimes though. Every time a kid fully extends his arm on a punch and locks his elbow it makes me shake my head. Those low kung fu stances with the front leg locked and extended .. those are not fighting stances but still. Locking any joint is bad technique in my opinion.
  6. Buby is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2002 8:25am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "kata only address very simple basic attacks. cosidering how old the kata are and how they fought back then. kata was not developed to defend against "a skilled fighter in 2002""

    - Do you guys feel the same way about kung fu forms?

    Thanks in advance,
    Buby
  7. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2002 12:44pm

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >a skilled fighter in okinawa back in 1905 was anybody who could throw a kick or punch... we have come a long long way.

    I really don't think so. I think we are just reinventing the wheel. Everytime soemone thinks they come up with something NEW it, or something very similar, has been done.

    Has far as okinawan fighters. I don't think you got an accurate picture. Back then, even up to the 1900s, who didn't call yourself master unless you could back it up. Fight were often and feirce. If someone didn't think you had what it took they would come and beat you down, simple as that. Nowadays any one can call themselves master and don't have the fear of some guy coming up and just starting a fight just to shut him up, it still happens thank god but it is rare. I wish we still had dojo yaburi, that way it would cut down on all the sokemons and so called grandmasters running around.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. Buby is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2002 1:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Asia,

    Amen.

    Buby
  9. marty_farty is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2002 6:46pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Asia
    If you dont mind me asking:
    How many times have you been to Okinawa?
    What is the extent of your research into the Ryu Kyu Islands?

    Thank you.
  10. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2002 2:22am

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     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Marty,

    I lived live on the mainland mostly. I taken about 5 trips to okinawa, last one was in 98.

    As far as my research I went to talk to several karateka about their karate and the. Mostly through introduction to someone else, for instance my last trip was with an army buddy of mine who is from okinawa his brother is still there an trains and we went to go visit him and his teacher. I am no Ryukyu expert. I do talk with pple who are. Would be happy to share any info with you.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
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