233514 Bullies, 3660 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 21 to 29 of 29
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Mago is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Anto, baby
    Posts
    23

    Posted On:
    12/11/2006 1:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Capoeira Regional

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=cafezinho][quote=Mago]Ag'ya and capoeira share similar roots. Many African combat styles blended because of lack of language. However, besides capoeira, scant have survived. My headmaster, Mestre Jelon, is currently studying the African roots of capoeira. His research has pointed to other capoeira-analogs, one that is now extinct in Puerto Rico, another extinct analog in Cuba.

    The root is from engolo (or sometimes just ngolo).

    Armbars, throws, etc are jiujutsu and don't have anything to do with capoeira. Capoeira crappling is I believe what some hear might call it. An attempt at Regional mestres wanting to look more hardcore? What ever the reason, it's kind of stupid in the context of capoeira.
    No more than thinking that capoeira is rooted in N'golo alone... as seems to be implied in your post.

    So, you've never fought out of a tesouro or vingativa? Amazing, isn't it, how we can be so close yet so far... art-wise, I mean. They have as much to do in capoeira as any other technique... because a martelo resembles a roundhouse does not make it MT or any other art... its all capoeira. More stupid is knowing the technique is there, yet not using it.

    You seem to have this idea that Regional is all about looking hard. When's the last time you played a Regional player? We're not all about Sao Bento Grande and big air in teh roda, although that's fun, too. Do we tell you it's stupid to play low and slow? Do you think we should kick only a certain way because Mestre Bimba took this concept or that concept from Batuque? Capoeira is flexible, absorbing whats around it while keeping its culture... speaking of culture... every Regional roda I've been to has played three berimbaus in our bateria... the angoleiro roda I went to in Boulder, CO had a berimbau and a pandeiro. Did we make fun of the culture stripped away there?

    :eusa_wall Don't think because you practice Angola that it makes you keepers of some culture that Regional lost. We keep our culture, as well as adding new and delightful toys to our repetoire.

    Back on point. There are several African arts that inform many of the slave-derived arts of the Caribbean and South America. Gabetula, bessula, n'golo and some others that can clearly be seen in strikes, kicks, and movement. Capoeira is a syncretic art - it formed from people exchanging ideas of combat from vastly different systems. There is even a slap-boxing art, the name eludes me at moment, that uses the galoponte exactly like in capoeira. Don't be led astray by the idea that there is one overall source to capoeira.
  2. cientista is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16

    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 6:33am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    i got more vids of this stuff!

    hey! well.....
    i spent a couple of sleepless nights searching for more of this Ag'Ya stuff and I came up with a way to get all the clips of the library site , even ones hidden to the public (to a grand total of THREE). I compiled them all and added some music from the same art form albeit recorded 30 yrs later by Alan Lomax. To see the clips and all the background research information go to capoeira science.com

    http://www.capoeirascience.com/ladja...e%20video.html

    You can download the videos to your hardrive or watch it on youtube from the link I have provided there.

    enjoy! this is amazing stuff.
  3. Yah-Tzelem is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2

    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 3:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: American Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is capoeira (literally) just known under a different name in the Islands. Capoeira was created in Brazil by the slaves 500 years ago for liberation and resistance to slavery. It traveled through-out South America and the Islands during the Trans-Atlantic Slade Trade. This is how Capoeira looked before it was structured in the 1930's.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

    How did bound and/or runaway slaves made their way from Brazil (a Portuguese colony and then independent country) to Martinica (a French colony) via the trans-atlantic slave trade. The slave trade was predominantly from Africa to a given colony. Shipment of slaves between colonies in the new world (AFAIK) were confined to within colonies belonging to the same European metropoli.

    That is, the majority of the slaves brought from Africa would be sold in-situ. Those that needed to be shipped somewhere else would be shipped to some other affiliated colony .ie. shipment arriving to Cuba and the shipped to Mexico (between Spanish posessions) or shipment arriving to Haiti and the shipped to Martinica (between French posessions.)

    I cannot imagine why slaves sold and in the posession of a Portuguese colony (Brazil) would be shipped to a colony belonging to a competing power (France.) And even if that rare event were to occur, it would have been so rare, and the amount of people transfered so small, that a cultural exchange of that magnitude (the transfer of a martial art) among slaves is remote, almost impausible.

    Yah-Tzelem, please elaborate on this. Maybe you know something about South American/Caribean colonial history that I may not be aware of.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Yah-Tzelem is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2

    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 5:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: American Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    What? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

    How did bound and/or runaway slaves made their way from Brazil (a Portuguese colony and then independent country) to Martinica (a French colony) via the trans-atlantic slave trade. The slave trade was predominantly from Africa to a given colony. Shipment of slaves between colonies in the new world (AFAIK) were confined to within colonies belonging to the same European metropoli.

    That is, the majority of the slaves brought from Africa would be sold in-situ. Those that needed to be shipped somewhere else would be shipped to some other affiliated colony .ie. shipment arriving to Cuba and the shipped to Mexico (between Spanish posessions) or shipment arriving to Haiti and the shipped to Martinica (between French posessions.)

    I cannot imagine why slaves sold and in the posession of a Portuguese colony (Brazil) would be shipped to a colony belonging to a competing power (France.) And even if that rare event were to occur, it would have been so rare, and the amount of people transfered so small, that a cultural exchange of that magnitude (the transfer of a martial art) among slaves is remote, almost impausible.

    Yah-Tzelem, please elaborate on this. Maybe you know something about South American/Caribean colonial history that I may not be aware of.

    Research the interconnections between the Brazillian slaves and Africans and also research about the short reign of French colonies in South America including Rio De Janeiro, Minorca, West Afrika, Carribeans & Sao Luiz and this was all up until the 1940's where France had short lived colonies in these places. So it's not that hard for the fighting style to have migrated. Also I said, DURING the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade times.
  6. cafezinho is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    560

    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 5:07pm


     Style: Capoeira Angola

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All the current research says lagya and capoeira have the same roots. But as a practitioner of capoeira myself, I can tell you that the two are not the same.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    10/15/2007 5:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yah-Tzelem
    Research the interconnections between the Brazillian slaves and Africans and also research ....
    Let me stop you right there. Do not tell me to research this or research that. I'm not going to do the research for you. If you made a claim, you present the evidence when people ask you for it. You don't get a free pass to say "go search it yourself". That's not how it works, neither here, nor in Academia.

    You claimed this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yah-Tzelem
    This is capoeira (literally) just known under a different name in the Islands. Capoeira was created in Brazil by the slaves 500 years ago for liberation and resistance to slavery. It traveled through-out South America and the Islands during the Trans-Atlantic Slade Trade. This is how Capoeira looked before it was structured in the 1930's.
    French presense in Rio de Janeiro only lasted from 1555 to 1567, counting just in the mere hundreds (mostly French Huguenots) with no discernible/established slave trade. Again, no documented influx of African slaves from Brazil to Martinica.

    The fact that the French had a meager outpost in Brazil that lasted a mere 2 decades (compared to the almost 400 years of Portuguese dominion in the region) does not necesitate a transfer of slaves from one Portuguese colony to a French one.

    In fact, such a trade is hard to imagine. Slave trade was a part of inter-colonial commerce, and there was no commerce between colonies of rival metropolis. Commerce was restricted by law to within related colonies and the metropoli. Anything else was considered treason. That's how it was.

    Going back to your post. You stated that

    1. Ag'ya is basically Capoeira,
    2. that it was originally invented in Brazil by slaves/runaways,
    3. and then transfered to Martinica during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade times.

    This means that there are historical records, from the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade period that one can use to discern this to a degree of certainty. What are those records? What are those references?

    I'm not arguing that Ag'ya is not Capo. I'm questioning the history behind the statement you made. We have way too many people making the most unfounded, historically-innacurate statements, and it gets tiring.

    So please tell us what references have you used to back up the claim that A'gya is basically Capoeira, invented by slaves and runaways in Brazil, and transfered to Martinica, from Brazil, during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade period.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. detramos is offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    3

    Posted On:
    10/28/2007 1:51am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As of this moment, i have only seen little research on Ag'ya so i'm unable to make any opinion on whether this is capoeira with a different name or not.
  9. lord shorty is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    i live in a vortex of consciousness
    Posts
    118

    Posted On:
    5/10/2009 7:47pm


     Style: shotokan karate, capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    katherine dunham

    a legend and inspiration to all lovers of anthropology, dance, africa and the caribbean!

    what a woman!!!!
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.