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  1. KungFuCat is offline

    Featherweight

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    Oct 2006
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    Detroit, MI - where the weak are killed and eaten
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    20

    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 12:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought that Capoeira was developed by slaves and designed to be used while one's hands and/or feet were shackled? If so, it would make sense that there is no grappling in the art.
  2. cafezinho is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
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    560

    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 12:39pm


     Style: Capoeira Angola

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Capoeira was developed in africa by the Bantu peoples of the Congo. It was manifested as the ngolo (hence capoeira angola), a type of ritual fighting game. Aspects of ngolo in Brazil became capoeira.

    As far as blades go, capoeira came before blades, and blades had nothing to do with capoeira, just with gang violence. The gangs (we're talking about Rio here) used, among other things, blades, but were also associated with capoeira, a much more pervasive cultural expression among blacks.

    Throws exist in capoeira, but the use of hands is very minimized and so throws with the hands are equally rare. There was never grappling inherent in capoeira, except perhaps as a shortlived limited regional thing used by some people. Again, nothing really to do with capoeira itself. The aesthetic of open hands refers to a congolese saying: "the hands are for creating, the feet for destroying".
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,762

    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 1:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nice find. I just added it to youtube for posterity :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfMEFj5PHAg
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. PizDoff is offline

    .

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Toronto
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    18,602

    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 6:47pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    THAT WAS TOTALLY COOL!!! WAY COOL!!

    Can you
    1. Link to Bullshido from YouTube
    2. Post that in our new video forum -
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=91

    Thanks again!
  5. Mago is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Anto, baby
    Posts
    23

    Posted On:
    12/02/2006 4:00am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Capoeira Regional

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ag'ya and capoeira share similar roots. Many African combat styles blended because of lack of language. However, besides capoeira, scant have survived. My headmaster, Mestre Jelon, is currently studying the African roots of capoeira. His research has pointed to other capoeira-analogs, one that is now extinct in Puerto Rico, another extinct analog in Cuba.

    Looking, Ag'ya seems to lack the more rhythmic ginga motion that is the basis of capoeira. However, the floor attacks seems similar to floor techniques in capoeira, and I swore I saw a floor-to-upright kick that's exactly like a kick called 'martelo do sole' which roughly means 'hammer kick from the floor'.

    Capoeira was designed to be fought with the whole body. There are hand strikes and foot strikes, knees and elbow strikes, takedowns and some grappling. For demonstration of skill, most jogas, or games, are played in white to show that we can do all this crazy acrobatic stuff and not get dirt on our clothes... holdover from playing capoeira on Sunday in church clothes...
  6. Mago is offline

    Featherweight

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    Dec 2006
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    San Anto, baby
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    23

    Posted On:
    12/02/2006 4:06am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Capoeira Regional

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cafezinho
    Capoeira was developed in africa by the Bantu peoples of the Congo. It was manifested as the ngolo (hence capoeira angola), a type of ritual fighting game. Aspects of ngolo in Brazil became capoeira.

    As far as blades go, capoeira came before blades, and blades had nothing to do with capoeira, just with gang violence. The gangs (we're talking about Rio here) used, among other things, blades, but were also associated with capoeira, a much more pervasive cultural expression among blacks.

    Throws exist in capoeira, but the use of hands is very minimized and so throws with the hands are equally rare. There was never grappling inherent in capoeira, except perhaps as a shortlived limited regional thing used by some people. Again, nothing really to do with capoeira itself. The aesthetic of open hands refers to a congolese saying: "the hands are for creating, the feet for destroying".
    The congolese saying may apply for angoleiros, but for Regional practioners, we have grapples, arm bars, and gallopontes (sp?) as well as the the kicks and esquivas. Capoeira Carioca taught straight-razor, club, and cane combat.
  7. cientista is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    16

    Posted On:
    12/10/2006 8:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DdlR - this is really great stuff. I have been reseraching on the net for a while now but Im finding it very hard to establish a dialogue with someone in Martinique who knows about Danmye/ Ladja. None of the sites I have found have contact info.

    Can you help me out here? FYI I run the Capoeira Science website.

    Thanks, C.
    Last edited by cientista; 12/10/2006 8:28am at .
  8. cafezinho is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    560

    Posted On:
    12/10/2006 5:33pm


     Style: Capoeira Angola

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=Mago]Ag'ya and capoeira share similar roots. Many African combat styles blended because of lack of language. However, besides capoeira, scant have survived. My headmaster, Mestre Jelon, is currently studying the African roots of capoeira. His research has pointed to other capoeira-analogs, one that is now extinct in Puerto Rico, another extinct analog in Cuba. [quote]

    The root is from engolo (or sometimes just ngolo).

    Armbars, throws, etc are jiujutsu and don't have anything to do with capoeira. Capoeira crappling is I believe what some hear might call it. An attempt at Regional mestres wanting to look more hardcore? What ever the reason, it's kind of stupid in the context of capoeira.
  9. cafezinho is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2004
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    Austin, TX
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    560

    Posted On:
    12/10/2006 5:34pm


     Style: Capoeira Angola

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cientista
    DdlR - this is really great stuff. I have been reseraching on the net for a while now but Im finding it very hard to establish a dialogue with someone in Martinique who knows about Danmye/ Ladja. None of the sites I have found have contact info.

    Can you help me out here? FYI I run the Capoeira Science website.

    Thanks, C.
    Find an online martinique newspaper and place an add. That would be the most direct route.
  10. Happycrow is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    242

    Posted On:
    12/10/2006 11:11pm


     Style: savate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bira Almeida says that capoeira and savate are related through chausson, and technically, it adds up -- I can walk right into a capoeira class with almost no adjustment (though we do a lot less main au sol than they do, obviously, and the boxe francaise guys, as far as I know, don't do any at all). A historical connection between all these arts would be a piece of cake, given that the Portuguese generally didn't care much about race, and the french lower classes in southern france mixed regularly and easily with Africans on the other side of the Med and down the African coast. A common way of moving would easily be applied to its various local contexts in different ways. (And it's politically incorrect to point out that a lot of Africans *served* on the slave ships... but I teach history, and I know better. Real history > ideology.)

    Thanks for the clip.
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