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  1. Oni9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 4:11pm


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4

    Oni 9, as for the other Koto Ryu Soke. Look up Tanaka Fumon and his relationship with Kaminaga Shigemi.

    Will do Thx


    Shinbushi will have a look at the links

    Thx
      #911
  2. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 4:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While the ninja have tried to change the topic--it remains the same.

    --J.D.
      #912
  3. shinbushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 4:22pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Which is???
    I for one do critique the org I am in often. I take issue with you and others attaching the non-ninpo tradions on legitimacy. On training methods, larping and other things I will agree with those rampant problems. I don't even remember what the original topic was except for maybe ripping on typical videos.
      #913
  4. Doctor X is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 4:34pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah!

    "Too many Ninjas!!" Instructs Seed to "release the hounds."

    Threads on this subject will meander.

    Practice: Someone asked about my style and . . . yes! There are some really pathetic videos of "t3h d34dly" from a sad guy twenty+ years ago--did you know the bow was REALLY t3h d34dly HEAD BUTT!! That is why you bow in kata!!! There is also this . . . heh . . . heh . . . okay, I will stop!

    But, is that the only or the main practice? Fortunately not--I have been many places and no one has ever taught the "bow-as-head-butt-waza" . . . other than to fire up an old video over booze and ask, "do you believe this guy?!" So, many [Straw--Ed.] critics of BJK ask about whether or not its principles work.

    Hence videos. Lots of requests for effective videos.

    Lineage/History: This interests me--and it is all about me. I have no problem with "new" martial arts. I have a problem with people making things up. You mention "non-ninpo traditions on legitimacy." I am unaware what you are tallking about. Maybe I misunderstand, but it seems that posters are holding BJK's tabis over the fire for it claiming ninpo traditions they cannot support.

    Right.

    --J.D.
      #914
  5. Doctor X is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 5:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it has not been linked, here is a Style Profile that nicely summarizes the problems with the history. Those who dispute such, need to provide evidence, such as evidence that, no, this particular style is older than Hatsumi's proported teacher, for example.

    --J.D.
      #915
  6. dweidman is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 7:29pm


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    Ah!

    "Too many Ninjas!!" Instructs Seed to "release the hounds."

    Threads on this subject will meander.
    Read the name of this thread. Please try to find "historical legitimacy" in BJK videos.

    Really Doc - go back and resurrect the thread you have linked to thrice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    So, many [Straw--Ed.] critics of BJK ask about whether or not its principles work.

    Hence videos. Lots of requests for effective videos.
    And - as has been pointed to repeatedly -- video from us won't change your mind on the effectiveness of the BJK -- only the effectiveness of the person in the video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    Lineage/History: This interests me--and it is all about me.
    Wrong thread Dr. Thread-Hijacker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    You mention "non-ninpo traditions on legitimacy." I am unaware what you are tallking about. Maybe I misunderstand, but it seems that posters are holding BJK's tabis over the fire for it claiming ninpo traditions they cannot support.
    Dr.

    Ask David how often he "teaches" the ninpo schools -- or how often the "N" word is used in your typical BJK dojo.

    You seem to want us to answer for Hatsumi Sensei though -- and give evidence that we don't have access to (assuming it exists). Your problem isn't with the instructors/members of the BJK -- but with the Soke of the art. You can ask us questions until you pass out -- but you aren't going to get it no matter how much of a temper tantrum you throw out here.

    I am going to ignore this point from this point on. Feel free to fall on the floor and thrash about while holding your breath.

    By the way -- you should read the last sentance of the Original post from the thread you have linked to thrice.

    Anyway -- if you want to start another thread about it -- please do.

    I thought this was a thread on Videos from the BJK.

    -Daniel
      #916
  7. Doctor X is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 7:49pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dweidman
    Read the name of this thread. Please try to find "historical legitimacy" in BJK videos.
    Part of the point there is none. However, as you discovered when you read the thread--you have read it, yes?--it has drifted to involve both topics. Since you engaged in it yourself you opened the door to cross-examination.

    Law&Order-Fu 4 t3h w1n!!11!!

    Really Doc - go back and resurrect the thread you have linked to thrice.
    Why? So you can run away from it again? There are better ways to develop conditioning.

    . . . video from us won't change your mind on the effectiveness of the BJK. . . .
    You know this how?

    Complains about thread hijack only to engage in it:

    Ask David how often he "teaches" the ninpo schools -- or how often the "N" word is used in your typical BJK dojo.
    The black tabi is for what exactly?

    You seem to want us to answer for Hatsumi Sensei though -- and give evidence that we don't have access to (assuming it exists).
    Argumentum ad ignorantiam--you have every ability to either:

    • 1. Rebut the evidence.
      2. Admit you cannot justify the historical claims of Hatsumi and others.


    Your problem isn't with the instructors/members of the BJK -- but with the Soke of the art.
    There is that term again . . . nevertheless, I would think instructors who follow one who has falsified history would prove a bit "problematic."

    You can ask us questions until you pass out. . . .
    Your frenetic evasions will cause your exhaustion long before that point, surely.

    I am going to ignore this point from this point on.
    Evasion and Cowardice noted.

    Despite claim to Ignore the points, wriggles about embarrassingly for a few more sentences.

    --J.D.
      #917
  8. shinbushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 8:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    The black tabi is for what exactly?
    Actually most indoor dojos use blue cotton bottom or suede bottom tabi, just like kendo and some Japanese jujutsu.

    Oh if you mean outdoor rubber sole tabi (jika tabi), are you calling Japanese construction workers ninja?
    Last edited by shinbushi; 10/17/2006 8:44pm at .
      #918
  9. Doctor X is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 8:33pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :jihad1:

    Shin . . . . . ^Doctor X pontificating. . . .

    --J.D.
      #919
  10. seattletcj is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/17/2006 9:28pm


     Style: Bujinkan, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    Having a branch lineage is kinda what I meant by a Menkyo Kaiden.


    Edit: Most branch lineages are started by a Menkyo Kaiden practioner starting off to run his own school.


    Its a fairly popular thing to do . However, much people go ahead a change the name slightly as Shinbushi points out above. I know Tanemura now claims to be the Soke of Koto Ryu Koppojutsu Tanemura-Ha.

    Oni 9, as for the other Koto Ryu Soke. Look up Tanaka Fumon and his relationship with Kaminaga Shigemi.
    As far as I know the soke of an art has the right to change the name, change techniques, add techniques etc. Beyond this, I dont believe its unheard of for a soke of a school to split the school up into parts and award sokeships for those seperate parts.

    [yawn]
    As far as the other Koto Ryu school in Japan I believe it went from Takamatsu to Ueno Takeshi to Kaminage Shingemi. Tanaka Fumon lists himself not as soke, but as represenative soke....whatever that means. I could care less and all this is really putting me to sleep. Here is a video of their koto ryu demo....all the techniques are also done in the BJK, but done quite different. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1Kofu6CLk


    Japanese Koryu history is not always neat and packaged and there is more often then not great embellishments and exaggerations. Not to mention alot of boring politics. Whats worse....saying your history stretches back 34 generations...or that your art was taught to the founder by mountain demons?

    I'm willing to bet that although Kaminage Shingemi's koto ryu liniage comes from Takamatasu , there is no one bitching to him or his students ad infinitum that Takamatsu made it all up, blah blah blah.

    Really boring stuff.
      #920

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