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  1. Japolo is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 6:19pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, Ex-Taijitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shinobi_jebus
    did you even watch that whole technique video, he makes a point and demonstrates about 3 times too NOT DO exactly what you described, the kick is too get the person leaning forward and then the pressure is applied allmost downwards ontop of the shoulder, watch again and you tell me you can step forward while thats being done properly.
    The point you are missing is that it doesn't matter what he TELLS people to do. When a fight happens you don't have time to think or remember what your instructor said. When I learned Taijitsu I was taught some basic good advice for defending a rear choke. (Tuck your chin and turn it toward the crook of the elbow to open an air passage.) But when I actually got choked for the first time while rolling at a real school, I completely panicked and forgot everything I had been TOLD. The second time I did better, was able to escape the choke--but since I had learned the technique from a standing position and had no idea how to escape from a rear mount I just got choked again.

    The students ultimately learn by doing the techniques physically. Trying to execute techniques on people who resist 100% is completely different from executing them on people who are compliant, or who only resist partially. If the students don't move from these drills to live rolling/sparring, they won't be able to suddenly "remember" what to do when their opponent starts doing any number of a million different things to defend against the technique, like bending their arms, stepping forward instead of simply falling on their faces, or, most likely, not allowing the ninja to get them into that weak armbar in the first place.

    To sum up, the only way to silence the Bujinkan detractors is to show us clips of ninjas doing some real rolling/sparring. And if you find that, you will be showing me ninjas who train completely differently from how I trained.
      #31
  2. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 11:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sean has his studnets spar. I don't know if he has them perform that specific technique during sparring. In judo randori I've tried to use a similar thing where I use a high lapel grip behind the neck or shoulder and yank the upper body down to bend them over. It works to get them to bend down but they do step and then posture up again. If I ever find myself bent down at a lower level to someone I usually go for a hook-behind or some sort of leg take.
      #32
  3. shinobi_jebus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 11:55pm


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Japolo
    The point you are missing is that it doesn't matter what he TELLS people to do. When a fight happens you don't have time to think or remember what your instructor said.

    you know these are kata right?.



    When I learned Taijitsu I was taught some basic good advice for defending a rear choke. (Tuck your chin and turn it toward the crook of the elbow to open an air passage.) But when I actually got choked for the first time while rolling at a real school, I completely panicked and forgot everything I had been TOLD. The second time I did better, was able to escape the choke--but since I had learned the technique from a standing position and had no idea how to escape from a rear mount I just got choked again.

    so practice, practice and practice more, its about muscle memory , not about how quick you can think `OMG WHATS THE COUNTER FOR THIS?`

    The students ultimately learn by doing the techniques physically. Trying to execute techniques on people who resist 100% is completely different from executing them on people who are compliant, or who only resist partially. If the students don't move from these drills to live rolling/sparring, they won't be able to suddenly "remember" what to do when their opponent starts doing any number of a million different things to defend against the technique, like bending their arms, stepping forward instead of simply falling on their faces, or, most likely, not allowing the ninja to get them into that weak armbar in the first place.

    i think you missed the point of taijutsu, there is not one set technique for a set situation, when something goes wrong the idea is too flow into another technique, your opponent is the one deciding what you will use against him, not you.

    To sum up, the only way to silence the Bujinkan detractors is to show us clips of ninjas doing some real rolling/sparring. And if you find that, you will be showing me ninjas who train completely differently from how I trained.
    i think a better way too silence bujinkan detractors would be too have them experience some good taijutsu first hand, after all words on a forum and youtube videos are worthless.
      #33
  4. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 12:35am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shinobi_jebus
    i think a better way too silence bujinkan detractors would be too have them experience some good taijutsu first hand, after all words on a forum and youtube videos are worthless.
    I have expirenced good taijutsu. Hell I train many of the same ryu-ha you do. However, we get past the kata and kumite and train alive. I know how it feels to get rocked by a solid chin ken during sparring, I also know what it feels like to land a solid Fubi(Hosaku). Its not the ryu-ha that sucks......ITS THE BUJINKAN!
      #34
  5. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 12:41am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Oni9
    Way to go shinobi jebus! How would they understand Shinden Fudo ryu anyway?
    I've studied quite a bit of it. Even done a bit of the Jutaijutsu system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oni9

    By the way the other day I watched one of my friends BJJ training tapes. The guy was busy demonstrating a ground control method. He mentioned not to move in a certain way otherwise you will hurt the assailants neck. What a load of ****.
    Understandable if they are trying to protect your partner. I like my training partners healthy, it doesn't pay for me to break them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oni9
    MA for entertainment. I say again...... all must study what they want. Not everybody will be top fighters.
    Just compentent ones. However, the Bujinkan won't even give you that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oni9
    So the ones that do not like the X-kans why are U always busy burning your pee brains with it.

    Carry on with your happy lives.
    The Genbukan still has some decent teachers but even they are going the way of the Bujinkan and Jinenkan. Too bad :(

    What you been doing Bujinkan for like 6 months ?
      #35
  6. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 1:16am


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shinobi_jebus
    i think a better way too silence bujinkan detractors would be too have them experience some good taijutsu first hand, after all words on a forum and youtube videos are worthless.
    The bad reputation Taijutsu has isn't due to random assumptions. It's due to coming into contact with various "Ninjitsu" styles. It's not like Taijutsu practioners have never taken a fight before, it's just that they tend to perform poorly.

    Of course there are exceptions as some train alive similar to modern MMA fighters, but on the most part they tend to lose in embarassing fashion.
      #36
  7. shinobi_jebus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 1:18am


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    I have expirenced good taijutsu. Hell I train many of the same ryu-ha you do. However, we get past the kata and kumite and train alive. I know how it feels to get rocked by a solid chin ken during sparring, I also know what it feels like to land a solid Fubi(Hosaku). Its not the ryu-ha that sucks......ITS THE BUJINKAN!
    if youre insinuating that we dont know how it feels too take a hit, mate ive been hit harder in training and hurt more than i ever have been in a street fight.
      #37
  8. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 1:32am


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps your school is the lone exception. The point remains that the Bujinkan still possesses a huge reputation for being incredibly corrupt and ineffective. Your association with the school affects how many people envision your training as do the videos that were provided.

    Does your school have a website? It'd be nice to see a Bujinkan school that trains with more contact than the standard model.
      #38
  9. shinobi_jebus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 2:41am


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yep it has a website, no videos, no blah blah blah on whatever , it just has instructors bio and training times/contact details.
    so i doubt you would find anything of use there, also my instructor doesnt go throwing his name around on the net, so im not about too either out of respect.
      #39
  10. Oni9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/24/2006 4:02am


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps your school is the lone exception. The point remains that the Bujinkan still possesses a huge reputation for being incredibly corrupt and ineffective. Your association with the school affects how many people envision your training as do the videos that were provided.
    I think people should name these ineffective BJK schools and their instructors. I simply have not experienced that.

    What you been doing Bujinkan for like 6 months ?
    Nice try. You probably tried for 6 months.
      #40

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