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  1. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 10:17am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kickboxing vs. Krav Maga

    Don't know if this is appropriate. The reason I'm asking is that I used to train in a "Krav Maga like" "art", it's basically based on what was taught in the World War II Combatives program type of stuff. Rex Applegate, W.E. Fairbairn.

    Axe-hand, chin-jab, knee to the groin, elbow to the face, hammerfist, kick to the knee/shin type of deal.

    I used to think it was effective although I've never tried it live in a full contact situation before. I still think it's effective against an untrained person, and is a great way to train soldiers who have no time for long training, but perhaps not against a trained fighter. But the fact is I don't know.

    Now I'm having second thoughts. It has its advantages, easy to be proficient, easy to learn and retain, open hand strikes, etc.

    Just wondering if anyone who has trained in Krav Maga has tried their skills on a trained "kickboxer", and video taped it? The kickboxer could be trained in muay thai, MMA, western kickboxing, kyukushin karate, even plain boxing - basically just someone who can punch and kick well.

    I'd like to see how it will look in action, as I'm considering studying Krav Maga. I'm already taking MMA classes now, so I don't know if KM will be a helpful addition for a more street-focused aspect of self defense.

    Thank you.
  2. PirateJon is offline
    PirateJon's Avatar

    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 10:21am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Skip it.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  3. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 2:09pm

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interestingly, I do both Krav and Kickboxing.

    ===

    If you're not sure if it'll work against a trained fighter at full-contact, perhaps you should give that a try.

    Personally, in a kickboxing match, I'm going to use kickboxing and train kickboxing. Asides from this, Krav teaches you responses to situations that would never come up in a competitive fight. If your back is turned to your opponent, he's not gonna grab your wrist and try to drag you along with him. He's not going to try to grab your gi-lapels while standing with both hands.

    Different environments.
  4. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 2:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The main difference between fighting some untrained guy in a bar and a kickboxer in a bar is that a kickboxer will pick his shots, where an untrained guy will either a) swing everything he's got at you or b) pretend to know boxing and try to pick shots like the kickboxer but end up crumpling once a good shot to the face connects on him.

    All the "close the distance, and ELBOW SMASH KILL" crap you hear in alot of RBSD as well as Military LARPer type places doesn't hold water when going up against a seasoned kickboxer or submission grappler. Ironically I find that, that kind of stuff works best not on untrained street brawlers, but rather Bullshidoka of Krotty schools especially that have been trained to throw comitted punches that just flow so perfectly into that stuff.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  5. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 8:59pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Samurai Steve
    I did try it out against a trained fighter, and it didn't work as expected. What I discovered was that I was at a disadvantage where range was concerned, my open-hand strikes couldn't reach him but his punches could. He could keep me at a distance with his punches and kicks, and it was hard for me to get close to use my tools. If I clinched with him, realistically he could throw me or take me to the ground, again another loophole in my training.

    It was also a heck of a lot harder to throw those "lethal" strikes when all the punches and kicks were flying about.

    This was when I noticed that in all the clips I've seen of the kinds of techniques I was learning, it was always done against someone who's not fighting back. And it looked very deadly and effective in that scenario. A light went off.

    Thus my request for any clips anyone might have of someone using military style open hand strikes/elbows/knees against a kickboxer in a real full contact match. I may be lousy and my skills suck, as I only learn off video tapes, so I may be doing them wrong. I want to see how an expert does it.

    To be fair though, I've learnt very good opening strikes from this system in a real street confrontation that I think is very useful. Also, like you said, it is useful for situations in which you're grabbed from behind, pushed, someone grabs your collar etc. that are not covered in MMA style fighting.
  6. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wrong forum for this question. Crap like this should be posted in YMAS.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  7. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:03pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    The main difference between fighting some untrained guy in a bar and a kickboxer in a bar is that a kickboxer will pick his shots, where an untrained guy will either a) swing everything he's got at you or b) pretend to know boxing and try to pick shots like the kickboxer but end up crumpling once a good shot to the face connects on him.

    All the "close the distance, and ELBOW SMASH KILL" crap you hear in alot of RBSD as well as Military LARPer type places doesn't hold water when going up against a seasoned kickboxer or submission grappler. Ironically I find that, that kind of stuff works best not on untrained street brawlers, but rather Bullshidoka of Krotty schools especially that have been trained to throw comitted punches that just flow so perfectly into that stuff.
    LOL! Yes I understand what you're saying. Sometimes I feel that our natural untrained fighting instinct, in which we just flail and punch and kick like a crazy man, is more dangerous than when you train in an unrealistic art and try to fight like that in a real situation.
  8. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:04pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hate to state the obvious...but your style field says, "BJJ and Muay Thai".

    Hence, shouldn't you already be studying kickboxing?
  9. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Spear Sister

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:09pm

    supporting membersupporting member
     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  10. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 9:09pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    I hate to state the obvious...but your style field says, "BJJ and Muay Thai".

    Hence, shouldn't you already be studying kickboxing?
    Yes I am, but there are situations in which MT and BJJ/MMA doesn't cover, like knife defense, multiple attackers, and I was thinking of taking up Krav to complete the education...
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