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  1. zengun9 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2006 1:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Open Combat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, when they train, they play Japanese drum music. The sensei tells story about tengu and how ninjas move like tengu. He is also adds Aikido moves in
    his classes. He is a good martial artist but his MA rank I questioned.
  2. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2006 2:54pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can you psot about what a typical class is like? You expirences there?
  3. zengun9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2006 3:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Open Combat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry no, I only attended one class and that's enough for me. But we did some ukemi, showed me the tengu sword, there is toy lightsaber in front of the Kamiza, maybe he showing that anything can be turn as a weapon. The guy is skilled but
    ninja history is not clear. More likely a mixed MA guy. Overall, what do you think of his web-site?
    Last edited by zengun9; 9/21/2006 3:22pm at .
  4. Plasma is offline
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    Heel Hook Hunter

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2006 4:27pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What does a Tengu swords look like? I have multiple posts above about the website.
  5. bad credit is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 12:35am


     Style: MMA, JKD philosophy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...hp?t=68&page=1 Here's a forum discussion about it. I actually have that issue of journal of asian martial arts laying around.

    The Tengu sword is basically a short polearm. Imagine a katana with the blade where the handle should be and vice versa. The school teaching it is fulla BS, though.
  6. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 2:56am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've researched these guys. Here's the story:

    The Saito family is real and, IIRC, taught some kind of karate/kempo and a whole bunch of weapons. At some point, the late Mark Saito Sr. decided to piggyback on the Ninja craze, and Sairo Jr. admitted as much to Dr. Karl Friday. Incidentally, the Saitos are apparently mostly culturally Hawaiian; it's been mentioned that Saito Jr. doesn't read Japanese. Saito Jr. is the current head of the school and is involved with various New Age things as well as Okazaki-style massage.

    The "Tengu Sword" supposedly resembles a common melon-cutting implement used in Hawaii, but I don't know the truth of it.

    Shannon Phelps is apaently the real deal as far as his military training goes (legit SEAL), and his CMA comes from a legit teacher in the form of Bow Sim Mark. There is no reason to believe that Phelps and anyone after him doesn't honestly believe their have access to some kind of historical tradition. Whatever invention occurred apparently happened up at the Saito end of things. Phelps actually had an article published in JAMA about the Tengu Sword, and this was later used as an argument for legitimacy despite the fact that the JAMA editor in question apparently accepted it as an example of modern mythmaking and snythetic tradition in martial arts.

    The MT discussion is interesting, but polluted by Bujinkan types who seem to fear, deep down inside, that the only difference between Hatsumi and Saito is the islands they live on.

    Here are links of interest:
    http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/...=0&F=&S=&P=250
    http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/...&D=0&T=0&P=852
    http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/...5&D=0&I=-3&T=0
    http://listserv.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/...9&D=0&I=-3&T=0

    Several posts are by Karl Friday, who actually spoke with Saito Jr, it seems.
    Last edited by eyebeams; 9/22/2006 2:59am at .
  7. zengun9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 10:15am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Open Combat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eyebeams, Sir, What do we know about this gentleman Stephen McGovern. He does not say his real rank in his website except he is a senior blackbelt in so and
    so. If you go to his website under Instructor, you will see him holding a katana in front of Mr. Phelps dojo kamiza. Is he connected with Mr. Phelps? and why not say your true rank or it's jsut the ninja way. www.tenkobushi.com
  8. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 11:06am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zengun9
    Eyebeams, Sir, What do we know about this gentleman Stephen McGovern. He does not say his real rank in his website except he is a senior blackbelt in so and
    so. If you go to his website under Instructor, you will see him holding a katana in front of Mr. Phelps dojo kamiza. Is he connected with Mr. Phelps? and why not say your true rank or it's jsut the ninja way. www.tenkobushi.com
    I don't know. I assume he's Phelps' student, since that's Phelps' school he's posing in, but you never know. I don't know anything about his rank. Saito Jr. says he's a "tenth degree black belt" in his style and a Google cache of Phelps' site (which seems to be down/dead) mentions awarding ranks, but not McGovern. Who knows?
  9. shinobi_jebus is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 12:59pm


     Style: Bujinkan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nice looking dojo on the photos link, whats up with the kids wearing masks though? thier not even oni masks lol
  10. zengun9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/22/2006 1:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Open Combat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks, I did the same thing, and it feels like Phelps is as mysterious as McGovern. MA background mysterious, rank mysterious, welcome to the
    world of ninjas........
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