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  1. #11
    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option. supporting member
    datdamnmachine's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bodhistate
    Switching ranks when switching organizations simply makes sense. Depending on what you are bringing into the new organization, your relative placement would change. Perhaps your previous organization had a different timeline for ranks in the same are (5 years to black, 10 years to black), but the material is the same. Or if you go from one system to one that is very different, you'd drop in rank (you can be black in Karate and be white in TKD). Just because a person can manipulate the system too advance in rank doesn't necessarily mean the system (in this case, using belts) is bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Severe
    And the power of control. If a person is capable of living up to the standard then move them on. Same thing happened to a guy I know, he was kept back so he left. They lost a skilled guy but cant see the error, and blame him for being too ambitious. whatever.
    Valid points. I myself go with the "your skill level in relation to others of a particular skill level" should be the measure of what rank you should get; if your system ranks that is. Lets see if I can create an equation:

    (If Your Skill Level At Lower Rank) = to or > then (Average of Skill Levels of Others in Next Rank Level) = (Advancement in Rank to Said Level)

    Hows that?

  2. #12
    sochin101's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I saw a very, very mediocre instructor go from shodan to sandan in no time at all by flitting from association to association.
    He joined UKASKO as a pretty **** 1st kyu, was suddenly a shodan, got his nidan (barely), saw the writing on the wall (he'd never get his nidan the honourable way) and skipped to the fledgling European Karate Association where he was all of a sudden the most useless sandan EVER!!!
    He'd applied pressure to get this, basically so he could grade his on students to shodan... and watch the money roll on in as he produced second-rate b-belts to his hearts content. Douche.
    Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.

    Gandhi


  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It only takes a few minutes to discover that Joe Lewis was promoted to 3rd dan before he left Okinawa in 1966. He trained with Bruce Lee from 1967-1970. He was national director for Tracy kenpo in the early 1970's where he taught fighting. He won the first world championship in 1974. At his 50th birthday he was promoted to 10th dan by the kenpo organization and presented the certificate, signed by 50 black belts of master rank by Jay T. Will ( endorsed by Ed Parker). The next year he was recognized as 10th dan by the late Michael DePasquale Sr., Gary Alexander, F.Visitation, all 10th dans. Bill Wallace received the 10th dan signed by Michael DePasquale Sr and Wally Jay. Jerry Beasley received the 9th dan signed by Michael DePasquale Sr, Wally Jay, Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis, all 10th dans. These are men with 35-45 years of professional full time experience.
    I like the AIKIA slogan "rank should be an honor not an expense". No instructor pays for dan ranks in AIKIA. My teacher is an AIKIA member, nuff said.

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I remember researching the fact that it's not easy to get into AIKIA because they examine your martial arts background before letting you in, and they don't charge you for membership. You can't buy rank and have to show proof of training beforehand, plus the fact that the rank testing, when eligible, is free is pretty nice because most organizations charge you a few hundred for this. One other thing I didn't realize was that Professor Vee (Visitacion) was attached to this organization. That is a big deal because he's a pretty serious martial artist and wouldn't mess around with something he didn't believe in. Wally Jay also doesn't endorse garbage, and if anybody's ever met Joe Lewis, I've heard stories from all kinds of circles that he was really something of an anomaly when he was competing and was a real tough guy. He is quite a presence in person and does not hesitate to prove his ability if someone wants to spout something questioning his skill level. Beasley is an overall nice guy, doesn't try to put on any impression, has no ego or possess any chip on his shoulder. I think these guys are alot more respectable than some other ones out there who suddenly become 10th dans from nowhere and jump around organizations until they get to a high enough rank. All these guys have the time in training and ability to go with the rank, so it's obvious from the list that if you ask them too, they've certainly proved their worth. Renzo Gracie is involved in AIKIA also and he competed professionally in UFC-style events for a number of years. Jhoon Rhee is also in here, and the list goes on, a virtual all-star cast of martial artists.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox
    It only takes a few minutes to discover that Joe Lewis was promoted to 3rd dan before he left Okinawa in 1966. He trained with Bruce Lee from 1967-1970. He was national director for Tracy kenpo in the early 1970's where he taught fighting. He won the first world championship in 1974. At his 50th birthday he was promoted to 10th dan by the kenpo organization and presented the certificate, signed by 50 black belts of master rank by Jay T. Will ( endorsed by Ed Parker). The next year he was recognized as 10th dan by the late Michael DePasquale Sr., Gary Alexander, F.Visitation, all 10th dans. Bill Wallace received the 10th dan signed by Michael DePasquale Sr and Wally Jay. Jerry Beasley received the 9th dan signed by Michael DePasquale Sr, Wally Jay, Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis, all 10th dans. These are men with 35-45 years of professional full time experience.
    I like the AIKIA slogan "rank should be an honor not an expense". No instructor pays for dan ranks in AIKIA. My teacher is an AIKIA member, nuff said.
    You're telling me revisionist history. Joe Lewis trained in Okinawa only 1yr and then he came to US. I don't thing he went from white to 3rd dan in 1 year. I don't care about who he trained with, but the bottom line is he did not have any intermediate dans. He went from 1st to tenth. I don't question his and Wallaces' skill and capabilities, but their romotions are phony. Show me proof of their their 2nd --> 9th dan progress. I gather you're instructor jumped some dans also.

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look at his official WEB site. He got his shodan in 7-8 months before he came to US.

    http://www.joelewisfightingsystems.com/?page=bio

    He was then awarded 10th dan. I don't know where you got the 3rd dan and other stuff.

  7. #17
    jkdbuck76's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So there are really no technical requirements in the dan game? I mean, was the awarding of the 10th dan to Wallace and Lewis based upon completion of technical requirements and kata, or was it more like the older generation passing the batton?
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Joe Lewis was able to beat all the other black belts on Oninawa. He was offered rank above shodan by Shimabuluro but turned it down. Oyata promoted him to 2nd dan. He received the 3rd dan after he left the island. What may apply to you and me and other regular black belts doesn't necessarily apply to a world champion that had no peers in the 1960's. Except maybe Chuck Norris who could roundhouse kick him in the head, and did.
    Chuck Norris didn't go throught anyone's dan system to make 10th dan, because he's Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis, people come to them for dan rank they don't go to other people. Get real man. This thread is bullshido.

  9. #19
    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM Join us... or die
    Doctor X's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbox
    Joe Lewis was able to beat all the other black belts on Oninawa.
    All other black belts in what exactly? All due respect to Mr. Lewis, but I am aware of quite a few black belts who were on Okinawa at the time who would disagree.

    This thread is bullshido.
    Many of your claims were shown to be "bullshido" by other posters. You are in no position to point fingers.

    --J.D.
    Why yes, I still have sand in my vagina! It is because I am a lying cowardly child who got buttfucked by MEANIE Doctor X! I also do not know the Latin and it makes me cry!!--Phrost

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People are goint to say what they want to hear. Lewis had a reputation at his dojo as the top fighter. Who do you know that beat him on Okinawa?

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