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  1. sempaiman is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 10:00am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Martial Arts Organizations

    There was a thread about "bad things in the Martial Arts", and the thing that comes to mind for me is the Martial Arts Organizations. To me they are just a rank factory. Pay you're fees and get your rank. I know an instructor that went from 3rd dan to 9th dan just by switching organizations. The organiztion that comes to mind is AIKIA run by Jerry Beasley which has Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis in it. Here is the set up. Lewis I believe only attained a Shodan rank because he trained on his own. Wallace I believe only got as far as a Nidan rank. Beasley somehow got to 7th dan. When Lewis and Wallace joined the organization, thats when the Karate College was formed. Lewis got involved Michael Depasquale Sr. organization and got promoted to 10th dan in kickboxing(1st to 10th). He then in the AIKIA promotes Beasely and Wallace to 9th dan. Granted Lewis and Wallace have proved them selves, but the promotion jumps is just plain BullshitDo.
  2. DaChinkOfSteel is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 10:04am


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ...unfortunately, the general public doesn't know better. The average American doesn't know the difference between Karate, Judo, BJJ, etc.; let alone all this crap like Black Belt Association, blah blah blah...it's retarded, we know..
  3. Devil is online now
    Devil's Avatar

    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 10:16am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sempaiman
    There was a thread about "bad things in the Martial Arts", and the thing that comes to mind for me is the Martial Arts Organizations. To me they are just a rank factory. Pay you're fees and get your rank. I know an instructor that went from 3rd dan to 9th dan just by switching organizations. The organiztion that comes to mind is AIKIA run by Jerry Beasley which has Bill Wallace and Joe Lewis in it. Here is the set up. Lewis I believe only attained a Shodan rank because he trained on his own. Wallace I believe only got as far as a Nidan rank. Beasley somehow got to 7th dan. When Lewis and Wallace joined the organization, thats when the Karate College was formed. Lewis got involved Michael Depasquale Sr. organization and got promoted to 10th dan in kickboxing(1st to 10th). He then in the AIKIA promotes Beasely and Wallace to 9th dan. Granted Lewis and Wallace have proved them selves, but the promotion jumps is just plain BullshitDo.

    I know what you're saying about belt factories, and I agree. But personally, I wouldn't use Joe Lewis or Bill Wallace as examples of how these organizations are bad. It's Joe fucking Lewis. He can wear whatever belt he wants. Who's got the right to say he shouldn't? Same with Wallace. I would say that the promotion jumps are most definitely not Bullshido in this case.
  4. NasalInfection is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 10:36am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Examples aside, there is a valid point here. Organizations that exist without any real purpose (competition, central control of an art) are just circle jerks with Belts being the proverbial cookie.

    The sticky part is what can be classified as a "real purpose"?
  5. chalkieusa is offline

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    Bel Air, Maryland
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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 12:09pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I call this the "Old Shuffle and Promote" scheme.

    We had a local guy, big in the local Kempo circle, disappear from the area a 3rd degree, only to re-appear about 18 months later at another school, a 5th dgree!

    Why? Different association!

    And it also seems the rule, at least in this area, that once you reach say, 3rd or 4th degree, the rest of your promotions come from what "Halls of Fame" that you're associated with. Stick around long enough, and support the right group, your a 10th degree in no time!:3some:

    What's the cost for this? Blind faith to the organization and the self professed "Masters, Gandmasters, and Sokes". And of course an understanding that the money runs uphill. Yes, it will cost you, and most organizations are not so up front about it. Thsi little fact comes later. Sort of works like multi-level marketing, such as Amway or Market America. the more suckers that you bring in, the better for you, and the uplink cash flow.:20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux: :20bux:

    I will admit, I was suckered once by this, and then I saw the light at the end of the tunnel, and understood that it was a train!
  6. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 12:11pm


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lewis and Wallace are bad examples(no disrespect to them), but point was, once Lewis got his 10th in kickboxing, he promotes Beasely and Wallace. That 's what happening with other groups.
  7. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 12:59pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sempaiman
    Lewis and Wallace are bad examples(no disrespect to them), but point was, once Lewis got his 10th in kickboxing, he promotes Beasely and Wallace. That 's what happening with other groups.
    I understand your point (and agree with it).
  8. datdamnmachine is offline
    datdamnmachine's Avatar

    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 2:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've heard of BJJ players leaving the Gracie Academy because they could obtain their BJJ rank faster at another school. The thing was, Helio would refuse to promote someone who didn't trian with him for 10 years regardless of skill level. I can understand quality control but If they are worthy of it at 7 or 8 give it to them. All you end up with is bragging rights that your brown belts can beat black belts. Of course they can, they've been a brown belt for 5 years!

    How does this relate. Well, they did move to a different BJJ school to get their rank. I guess the only difference is that because of the competition enviroment of BJJ, there still would be a way to verify whether said person was worthy of the rank or not. One thing to get it, another then to be worthy of it I suppose.

    Would this situation be similiar to all the belt factories out there giving out rank? Probably...probably not...discuss please.

    Note* I use BJJ as an example because I know more about it's politics then I do the other martial arts because it's what I practice and enjoy.
  9. bodhistate is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 2:49pm


     Style: pa-kua

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Switching ranks when switching organizations simply makes sense. Depending on what you are bringing into the new organization, your relative placement would change. Perhaps your previous organization had a different timeline for ranks in the same are (5 years to black, 10 years to black), but the material is the same. Or if you go from one system to one that is very different, you'd drop in rank (you can be black in Karate and be white in TKD). Just because a person can manipulate the system too advance in rank doesn't necessarily mean the system (in this case, using belts) is bad.
  10. Severe is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 3:12pm


     Style: Muay Thai, RBSD Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by datdamnmachine
    I've heard of BJJ players leaving the Gracie Academy because they could obtain their BJJ rank faster at another school. The thing was, Helio would refuse to promote someone who didn't trian with him for 10 years regardless of skill level. I can understand quality control but If they are worthy of it at 7 or 8 give it to them. All you end up with is bragging rights that your brown belts can beat black belts. Of course they can, they've been a brown belt for 5 years!
    And the power of control. If a person is capable of living up to the standard then move them on. Same thing happened to a guy I know, he was kept back so he left. They lost a skilled guy but cant see the error, and blame him for being too ambitious. whatever.
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