222022 Bullies, 4186 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

View Poll Results: Who does the lack of a mat favor for takedown TRAINING?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • It greatly favors the attacker.

    7 9.86%
  • It slightly favors the attacker.

    11 15.49%
  • It might affect the tactics, but neither is at an advantage.

    19 26.76%
  • It slightly favors the defender.

    1 1.41%
  • It greatly favors the defender.

    0 0%
  • It only favors the Ibuprofen manufacturers.

    33 46.48%
Results 1 to 10 of 33
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 11:57am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    No Mat: Who does it affect?

    In a TRAINING situation for takedowns and defenses, who does the LACK of a mat favor?

    On another thread, someone speculated that, due to psychological and societal norms, an attacker would "naturally be at a disadvantage" because he really wouldn't want to take the defender down. That didn't sit well with me. My reasoning if two people decided to train without a mat, while it might affect the tactics used by both, generally, it just causes more wear and tear on the training partners.

    I thought this would be an interesting poll.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 8/29/2006 12:24pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
    ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North England
    Posts
    643

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 12:10pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Going to have to go with saying it will only affect tactics at a guess (I've never tried it) but thats assuming we are talking about takedowns in the sense of single legs and stuff where you aren't going in for, what I'm going to call throws for want of a better word.

    I know that grappling on harder mats makes both the attacker and the defender a bit more cautious, shooting in and missing can be a bit unpleasnat but equally, getting taken down is a bit worse as well.

    If you start to work in more Judo style throws (AS opposed to "BJJ takedowns" I know, I'm wincing as I type it), particularly hip throws, I guess it favours the attacker more as the pain from getting thrown hard wiill be fairly substantial.
  3. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,147

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 1:14pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I personally think it is stupid to train throws and takedowns without a mat. Save some wear and tear on your body. Sometimes protection is not a bad thing (always wear cups, condoms, and mouthguards.)

    I know that if I trained as hard as we do in bjj/judo without a mat, I'd probably be a cripple. In fact a few times I've been knocked silly on the mat from throws I didn't expect.
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 2:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I personally think it is stupid to train throws and takedowns without a mat. Save some wear and tear on your body. Sometimes protection is not a bad thing (always wear cups, condoms, and mouthguards.)

    I know that if I trained as hard as we do in bjj/judo without a mat, I'd probably be a cripple. In fact a few times I've been knocked silly on the mat from throws I didn't expect.

    I agree with you. It is crazy. However, to a certain extent, training this kind of stuff on a mat is already crazy, so it's really a matter of degree as to how crazy two training partners agree to be. :smile:

    I've seen skateboarders with little to zero amount of protective gear try some pretty insane stunts, take some pretty nasty spills, and just get up and get right back on their skateboard to try again. Maybe they wouldn't try the half-pipe without a helmet (you never know), but a falling on hard surface didn't seem to slow them down or change what they were doing all that much.

    Hip tosses can be certainly nasty, but the attacker can be counter-thrown so I think it's still a wash. As long as they're not going for a full force smash down with a makikomi or something, good ukemi and an attacker who helps you fall softer would seem to still make this somewhat reasonable to the crazier people.


    I certainly have no love for Systema, but their practitioners do seem to advocate practicing grappling without a mat at least once in a while. Of course, that may be an indication of stupidity more than relative safety. :smile:
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 8/29/2006 2:23pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  5. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    3,008

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 2:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Once in a while in Enshin we would spar without the mats and I didn't really do alot of takedowns then because well they hurt. and if I found myself being taken down I would find myself holding on to the thrower while drilling as opposed to doing a proper breakfall.
  6. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,147

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:12pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    I've seen skateboarders with little to zero amount of protective gear try some pretty insane stunts, take some pretty nasty spills, and just get up and get right back on their skateboard to try again. Maybe they wouldn't try the half-pipe without a helmet (you never know), but a falling on hard surface didn't seem to slow them down or change what they were doing all that much.

    The joys of youth. Of course give them a few years and see how well those knee/hip replacement surgerys go.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 4:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    The joys of youth. Of course give them a few years and see how well those knee/hip replacement surgerys go.
    Of course luck has something to do with it. But, it hasn't seemed to have affected Greg Garcia (picture @ right).

    And, Tony Hawk is what - like 39 years old?

    Also, there are more than a few older grapplers who never did anything off a mat who still have bum hips, knees, and shoulders due to their art - dems da' sacrifices. (I'd have to agree with speculation that the percentage would be a wee bit higher among the mat-less crowd, though.)
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  8. eyebeams is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,437

    Posted On:
    8/30/2006 6:26am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You normally don't get long term injuries from direct impact alone, but from bad weight distribution and stress on the joints.
  9. DJR is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    291

    Posted On:
    8/31/2006 11:35pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    I've seen skateboarders with little to zero amount of protective gear try some pretty insane stunts, take some pretty nasty spills, and just get up and get right back on their skateboard to try again.

    The joys of youth. Of course give them a few years and see how well those knee/hip replacement surgerys go.
    Yeah, I know a few people who are paying for their youthful skateboarding hijinks now that they're getting into their 30s and 40s. I think it was mosty attitude and youth that allowed them to get away with it at the time, but now that they're older all those years of falling on concrete = joint pain, back problems, and physio (for those that can afford it).

    I kind of suspect that falling on hard surfaces repeatedly should be avoided...
  10. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,856

    Posted On:
    8/31/2006 11:49pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I personally think it is stupid to train throws and takedowns without a mat. Save some wear and tear on your body. Sometimes protection is not a bad thing (always wear cups, condoms, and mouthguards.)

    I haven't worn a condom yet in training although maybe I have misunderstood the phrase "get your hooks in"
Page 1 of 4 1 234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.