My review of Judo Team World Cup

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 1:14pm

Personally I prefer Judo to BJJ but I fully recongnize that BJJers have the superior ground game.

I would like to see some sort of combined ruleset come into play for Judo. I still would like the throwing aspect to be an important part of the match but I would also like to see more time given to the ground game once the throw is completed.
Maybe something along these lines.

- Points awarded for throws only.
- Once on the ground, someone has to catch a submission within 2 minutes to end the match or they are stood back up.
- Total match time 8 minutes (6 minutes maybe?)
- If neither competitor is submitted at the end of the match, winner will be determined by who has the most points.

I am not entirely clear on all Judo rules so some of this might already be in play. I think by giving points for throws only it will force Judoka to focus on throws in their training, but by allowing a fight to end by submission will also force Judoka to train submission defense and application. In this way if a Judoka is losing on points he still has a chance to win by getting the submission before time is up.

Unlike BJJ there will be no points for ground positions.

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 1:21pm

I think a good new ruleset would be as BJJ but awarding a win for a clear hard ippon as Mongo describes.

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 1:26pm

Originally Posted by Tomasd

lighten up guys, not all is lost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_reeafIP0_Q

That was awesome...

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 1:29pm

Originally Posted by Blue Negation

I think a good new ruleset would be as BJJ but awarding a win for a clear hard ippon as Mongo describes.

I think that would be good also, but I still don't want to see points awarded for ground positions like they do in BJJ tournaments, submission or nothing once your down there.

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 1:34pm

I like the positioning aspect of BJJ comps. It retains BJJ's applicability to "t3h 57r337" / MMA, because superior positioning is key for striking. I'd like to see Judo incorporate this nod to striking. It's also a wonderful cure for turtling and back-giving.

**WorldWarCheese** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 2:52pm

Is this on youtube or somewhere, I can't find it and it didn't show on TV here to my knowledge, bad rules and refs or no, it is the World Cup...

**Blue Negation** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 3:15pm

Originally Posted by Tomasd

It's called osaekomi.

Ideally, yes. However, the problems of turtling and back-giving, just as in wrestling, persist under osaekomi. I think replacing pins with positioning points would promote a more fluid Judo ground game and eliminate turtling/back-giving.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 7:22pm

Originally Posted by Tomasd

lighten up guys, not all is lost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_reeafIP0_Q

and here http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20205601629951

Both of these videos are from several years ago and do not reflect the standards that are in common practice at high level shiai.

Using a training video for guys that used to compete/teach in Kosen Judo is rediculous because there is no way that detailed ground fighting can occur in Judo shiai with the current ruleset.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 9:52pm

So in the meantime, what's left for Judoka besides participate in BJJ tourneys? MONGO, do you see any changes in the current ruleset anytime soon (meaning within a decade)?

**MONGO** · Posted On: 9/19/2006 10:01pm

In comps here in Japan, I have seen little involved ground work. I did pull a sweep to a sub in my last tourney but I got stopped while I was setting up a triangle and a collar choke (I almost never use osaekomi unless its in practice). I haven't seen too many refs that will allow time on the ground because many seem to be unfamiliar with the flow and what constitutes progression on the ground.

The major reason for me starting this thread was to complain/voice my opinion that Judo is becoming a start and stop sport. The rules have removed most of the flow in the sport (standing and on the ground).