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  1. OldDog53 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 10:35am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most excellent! Great pix! The break posture/head control shots are just what I need to get started drilling.

    Interestingly enough you hit on just the point that was tying me up at the class this weekend. I couldn't get my left leg up high enough over my partners head to lock down into mission control. Why? Because I was pulling him down too high on my body! Which I didn't realize Saturday or even Sunday when I tried drilling with my wife. (I initially thought I was having trouble on Saturday because my partner was much taller than me, and bigger, but when I had the same problem with my petite wife on Sunday I thought, WTF? but wrote it off to being sore and not as limber on Sunday.)

    But you said "I fall back, pulling him down to break his posture. My right foot goes to his hip, and if I can't step on his hip, I know I'm too close and need to scoot higher. I need to be able to push his hip away to keep from being stacked."

    Bingo! Scoot higher! That's what was missing for me (well, plus everything that follows, but I want to at least be able to get into Mission Control). Get the right foot on the hip (I was very poor on this at the class) - that tells me if I am distanced right. I also think you are right about opening guard, I can't get the positioning I need without opening.

    But ooh, the FNC! That's going to be a lot of fun this weekend even if I don't get any further.

    Thanks again. It should go without saying we all know that classes and drilling take a lot of time, much less taking all these pix (how many to get what you wanted) then posting them.

    Got any tips about how to do leg curls and knee squeezes if you don't belong to a gymn? I was going to get (ugh, the horror) a thighmaster for the squeezing and some elastic bands or ankle weights for the curls, but any suggestions appreciated. Also, if you have any pix completing the Omoplata instead of going to arm bar, I'd love to see them....
  2. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 10:49am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The photos I used above are actually the second set I took. I had shot the technique once through before, but felt the angle didn't show the grip changes well enough. But rather than let these go to waste, I've decided to share them since 1) it's nice to have a second angle on a move and 2) I think they offer some insight into how much flexibility I'm using, especially in my hips.



    Gable grip on neck after breaking posture. Right foot on hip.



    Mission control. Here is when to start judging how much flexibility I'm using.



    Fist in place to zombie.



    Zombie complete. Jon's arm is on the floor.



    New York.



    New York from another angle.



    Karate block my arm to the other side.



    Second angle.



    Chill dog.



    More chill dog.



    Begin kung fu move.



    Forearm and shin parallel.



    Buddha palm strike to my ankle.



    To prevent the omoplata, Jon grabs my knee.



    Grabbing his elbow.



    Yank the elbow, kick the leg, break the grip.



    Triangling the legs around the arms.



    Grabbing the wrist to finish.

    So how much flexibility do I seem to be using? It didn't feel at all extreme when I did it, but maybe I'm just a weirdo.
  3. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 11:07am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OldDog,

    Not positioning yourself to be able to step on their hip is what I consider the most common error people commit when doing rubber guard, and the main source of all of the complaints that it requires too much flexibility. You do need to be limber to do it, but even I can't do it if they are high on my upper body and I just start trying to force my legs up their back. Now that I've taken to only doing rubber guard with my hips high and foot on the hip (and the other details Eddie teaches on the grips), I haven't had any trouble with my hips, which I had previously hurt pretty bad trying to do rubber guard on someone who stood and shook me out of it.
  4. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    herndon, va, usa
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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 11:29am

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    now, please correct me if i'm wrong, but i understand this to be a straight up neck crank (even with the hand on top of his scalp, rather than on his forehead). if your opponent sees it and taps, you'll be dq'd for a cervical attack with no choke, even if you don't crank it.

    my understanding of both cbjj rules and technique names is pretty dim, though, so if someone can explain if i'm wrong here...

    it's one of my favorite techniques, but not something i sink unless someone's being a real bitch. i've had it inculcated in me that it's something to be careful about.
  5. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 11:33am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I repeat, I'm not putting any pressure into that grip beyond just using it to hold the head as I fall back. It can be a neck crank but I'm not going to waste much energy trying to get a tap with it.

    Also, considering that I got this from Eddie Bravo, I don't think he's worrying about CBJJ rules.
  6. OldDog53 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 11:33am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    OldDog,

    Not positioning yourself to be able to step on their hip is what I consider the most common error people commit when doing rubber guard, and the main source of all of the complaints that it requires too much flexibility. You do need to be limber to do it, but even I can't do it if they are high on my upper body and I just start trying to force my legs up their back. Now that I've taken to only doing rubber guard with my hips high and foot on the hip (and the other details Eddie teaches on the grips), I haven't had any trouble with my hips, which I had previously hurt pretty bad trying to do rubber guard on someone who stood and shook me out of it.
    [Bold added]

    It's the only "weak-link" from Eddie's seminar on Saturday - he made it clear about the foot on the hip, but not about the position of the head on the chest. Since he said the opponent's hands come down on your chest, I immediately assumed the whole body was just up higher, closer to head to head. From that position, getting into Mission Control is a struggle, and we all thought it was just a question of being limber. Now that I recall, Eddie's partner's head probably was right at Eddie's sternum.

    Also, when I broke guard to clinch, my hips slid DOWN, when as you indicated, you need to FALL BACK with your hips UP. (Is this right?)

    Also, the posture of the opponent makes a big difference. If the opponent sprawls down and lets the legs, hips move back (as each of us tended to do at the seminar), there's plenty of room for a foot on the hip even though the head is still too high for good mission control (Is this right?). Eddie DID keep emphasizing that the opponent (one in guard) should maintain good posture, sit back on the heels, head up, body as erect as possible (given the overall situation). I think if that had been the case when we drilled , I would have had to scoot up to get my knee in.

    So if I FNC my partners at class this weekend to bring them down, should I expect panic or an overreaction? I don't have the skill set to deal with a lot of spazzing at this point, don't want to p.o. the senior students, would it be safer to just pull them down with head control with one arm like you show in your first set of pix?

    One of the things I really like at EB's class was the way he pointed out what type of punches to expect at each stage and how to minimize anything really serious...well that and the fact that these moves are totally gi-independent! (I love the gi, but don't want to become dependent on it).
  7. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 11:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great tech. Aeso...

    NOTE TO SELF: Work on flexability to avoid dislocationg hip while pulling for rubber guard.
  8. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 12:12pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rubber guard is quickly becoming my favorite place to be. I work lots of triangles from there and i'm getting better at omoplatas from there as well. I can't wait to play with this.

    On a side note, I'm starting to depend on my guard too much. I think I should start to focus more on my top game.
  9. Tenebrous is offline
    Tenebrous's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 7:46pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Great tech. Aeso...

    NOTE TO SELF: Work on flexability to avoid dislocationg hip while pulling for rubber guard.
    Definitely. I made the mistake of putting some of the flex on my knee when I first started trying to use rubber guard as a transitional position - despite having enough range of motion in my hips. Good way to get yourself a month worth of knee strain. Gotta have enough flexibility to do it all in the hips.
  10. OldDog53 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2006 7:43pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    OldDog,

    Not positioning yourself to be able to step on their hip is what I consider the most common error people commit when doing rubber guard, and the main source of all of the complaints that it requires too much flexibility. You do need to be limber to do it, but even I can't do it if they are high on my upper body and I just start trying to force my legs up their back. Now that I've taken to only doing rubber guard with my hips high and foot on the hip (and the other details Eddie teaches on the grips), I haven't had any trouble with my hips, which I had previously hurt pretty bad trying to do rubber guard on someone who stood and shook me out of it.
    Aesopian, I drilled after class today. Everthing is going fine through Mission Control. Then I said, try to get out. Left side tight. but he straightened out his left leg, then brought his left knee around my right leg.

    Suggestions?
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