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  1. mrpopo is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2009 12:05pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That video is real, if you go back to page 5 you will see posts poking fun at Sensei Cassanova El, one of Lord Utmosts top students, and his son. And you will see pictures aswell. That is the same person in the video, and that was not a racist comment, the colored one in that video really is Cassanova. I know this because I live only a town over from them, they live in a town called sandwich, i live in mashpee and if you click the video, they say his name in the comments.
  2. mrpopo is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2009 12:18pm


     

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    This is a better angle YouTube - Jeff vs.Cass (13 sec KO)
  3. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/09/2009 12:26pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Listen buster (said tongue in cheek) like it or not Duncan is and was a large presence in the martial arts community. Many guys, including guys wha are in special operations of various sorts do CHOOSE to train with Duncan. I know this for a fact. I also know that uncan has humbled people who came in to challenge him I know this as a fact because one of my teachers became his student this way.

    Before you go Ninja red on me let me also say: when I see tapes of Duncan I want to cry. I can't explain why a good majority of his students I have worked with over the years at events my teacher had were really good when I don't see it with him at all....

    I don't claim that Duncan is good or bad... I don't know because I have nevr had the desire to meet the man given his charming personality. For example he kicked one of my friends out here out of his dojo during an interview because he asked about the ninjitsu... nice guy that Duncan.

    My point is tha Duncan whether people like it or not has gained some legitimacy in the martial arts community and there are combat occupants who choose to study his methods, whether people like it or not.
    I actually think we're agreeing here, my statements were more a generalisation, rather than aimed specifically at Duncan, but using him as an example, having seen what he's doing, there's nothing about it which looks at all like it came from feudal japan, there is judo/jujutsu ,karate, some close quarter military stuff maybe, a sprinkling of aikido, and if you spend a lot of your time stirring that stuff in a pot, then you will probably get some interesting and effective flavours out for your 'meal'. But it still won't look like koryu, because it isn't. And if it's good there is nothing wrong with doing it, but trying to pass it off as ancient simply doesn't wash, because it clearly isn't.

    I think gendai arts are great, the guys that put them together were trying to advance what they were doing, make it more accessible, and more relevant for modern times, and they legitimised it by being being good, and having good teachers etc. So I'm not arguing about whether or not he is any good or not, even though, I too die a little inside when I pootube him, or the efficacy of what he teaches, and how well its transferred to people. But, to claim it has an ancient ancestry etc etc is just not true, or it would be obvious in the movement and methodology etc etc...

    anyway, time for my ramen and then I have to go and look all gendai and non koryu and whatnot on the mat :D
  4. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/09/2009 12:37pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    I actually think we're agreeing here, my statements were more a generalisation, rather than aimed specifically at Duncan, but using him as an example, having seen what he's doing, there's nothing about it which looks at all like it came from feudal japan, there is judo/jujutsu ,karate, some close quarter military stuff maybe, a sprinkling of aikido, and if you spend a lot of your time stirring that stuff in a pot, then you will probably get some interesting and effective flavours out for your 'meal'. But it still won't look like koryu, because it isn't. And if it's good there is nothing wrong with doing it, but trying to pass it off as ancient simply doesn't wash, because it clearly isn't.

    I think gendai arts are great, the guys that put them together were trying to advance what they were doing, make it more accessible, and more relevant for modern times, and they legitimised it by being being good, and having good teachers etc. So I'm not arguing about whether or not he is any good or not, even though, I too die a little inside when I pootube him, or the efficacy of what he teaches, and how well its transferred to people. But, to claim it has an ancient ancestry etc etc is just not true, or it would be obvious in the movement and methodology etc etc...

    anyway, time for my ramen and then I have to go and look all gendai and non koryu and whatnot on the mat :D
    Koryu and DiatoRyu look about as different from anything seen from Duncan as can be imagined. The one verfifiable connection to anything remotely similar is to a Teacher with a weird name who was kicked out of the Hakka Ryu system Rocki nara.

    You are quite correct, very nice post in fact. I have a standing policy to deliver a large sum of money to how the hell Duncan can put that stuff out and expect to be taken seriously.... And anyone who knows Duncan knows better than to ask him. Actually I make sure that when I ask my teacher anything about these issues (he is a student of Duncans) that he has had a few... quite a few. BUt even when I asked and he was sober I got the same shrugg, hitting of his head and muttering. I have come to the conclusion that nobody xept Duncan can answer that one... as said, and I spoke to Sam Browning of this... my friend was supposed to interview and reveal Duncan's sources and he got thrown out of the dojo and accused of being a spy for _________ and _________.

    We ought to start a support group for people who have had contact with Duncan's guys and seen some compitant as **** guys! and then have to watch films of Duncan..... the one that makes me really want to hit Golden Gate Bridge? .........

    The improvised weapon series. We also get to see Duncan's Acting skills in this one!
  5. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2009 6:55pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Koryu and DiatoRyu look about as different from anything seen from Duncan as can be imagined. The one verfifiable connection to anything remotely similar is to a Teacher with a weird name who was kicked out of the Hakka Ryu system Rocki nara.

    You are quite correct, very nice post in fact. I have a standing policy to deliver a large sum of money to how the hell Duncan can put that stuff out and expect to be taken seriously.... And anyone who knows Duncan knows better than to ask him. Actually I make sure that when I ask my teacher anything about these issues (he is a student of Duncans) that he has had a few... quite a few. BUt even when I asked and he was sober I got the same shrugg, hitting of his head and muttering. I have come to the conclusion that nobody xept Duncan can answer that one... as said, and I spoke to Sam Browning of this... my friend was supposed to interview and reveal Duncan's sources and he got thrown out of the dojo and accused of being a spy for _________ and _________.

    We ought to start a support group for people who have had contact with Duncan's guys and seen some compitant as **** guys! and then have to watch films of Duncan..... the one that makes me really want to hit Golden Gate Bridge? .........

    The improvised weapon series. We also get to see Duncan's Acting skills in this one!
    Ironic - Hakko ryu is my main art, the hakka is the tribal dance the New Zealand Rugby team do... hmmmm, given my mat performance sometimes maybe its closer!!! For what its worth, being expelled from Hakko ryu is nothing new, Nidai Soke, the founders son, expelled as far as i know, all westerners, and some japanese left as well, the reasons, are... well... curious, and if I was in japan looking to train in this stuff, it wouldn't be at the hombu, but someplace else..... At the same time, I've seen some dreadful stuff that is clearly hakko ryu kata, but totally lacks the soul of the art, even from people that have reasonable rank but that have created their own 'art' from it. So someone being expelled doesn't imply they are bad, if you see what I mean, but at the same time, they could really suck.

    So in short, if Duncan has done Hakko ryu, then it doesnt show, his body movements don't reflect it, his centerdeness (sp?) doesn't, and his strategy, we're simple folk, we have 3 strategies, irimi, irimi, and irimi, that means to enter, in its simplest form, but in training it means go straight in and hard, and it wasnt until i'd 'immersed' myself a bit in this stuff that i figured it out. We have a stance that is crap at moving in various directions, but is great at moving forward at speed, it makes my life easy, i just go in, I've used this quite happily on the street, because it's not a martial stance like in the films, it's a "I'm fucking coming for you" stance, and I believe it defused the situation. So as I said, if he's done hakko, he hasn't _done_ it, he's collected techniques from it. A shame, i guess, because he could do a lot better if he'd really gotten into it.

    Hehe, I think if no one is answering, it's because there is nothing to say, I cant call what I do hakko ryu, but I dont mind, because anyone on our mat knows what it feels like, and a lot of the guys that stick with it are experienced, on of our boys is pretty handy at MAA/BJJ, on the floor he takes me apart in seconds, but he's always there because he wants to figure out what we're doing, because we do it, and we do it all live, if it isn't working, we don't weasel out of it with excuses, we figure it out and get on with it, and while we have lineage, we don't rely on it for 'proof', the proof is in the pudding, the lineage is nice. Which takes me back to earlier, why legitimise it with a fake history, you just lose reputation, even if your art is solid in what it does.

    So it doesn't surprise me your friend was ejected, my friend and I were discussing this on the way back from training, and i think the trouble is, inventing these stores way back when was fine, but they never realised the internet was coming, and with it, how quickly and easily information could be disseminated rapidly. And once you start a lie, it's a bitch to go back....

    But his vids are ace, I can laugh and cringe all at the same time, a rare treat! My apologies for rambling....
    Last edited by Yoj; 6/10/2009 7:31pm at .
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2009 10:34pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    Ironic - Hakko ryu is my main art, the hakka is the tribal dance the New Zealand Rugby team do... hmmmm, given my mat performance sometimes maybe its closer!!! For what its worth, being expelled from Hakko ryu is nothing new, Nidai Soke, the founders son, expelled as far as i know, all westerners, and some japanese left as well, the reasons, are... well... curious, and if I was in japan looking to train in this stuff, it wouldn't be at the hombu, but someplace else..... At the same time, I've seen some dreadful stuff that is clearly hakko ryu kata, but totally lacks the soul of the art, even from people that have reasonable rank but that have created their own 'art' from it. So someone being expelled doesn't imply they are bad, if you see what I mean, but at the same time, they could really suck.

    So in short, if Duncan has done Hakko ryu, then it doesnt show, his body movements don't reflect it, his centerdeness (sp?) doesn't, and his strategy, we're simple folk, we have 3 strategies, irimi, irimi, and irimi, that means to enter, in its simplest form, but in training it means go straight in and hard, and it wasnt until i'd 'immersed' myself a bit in this stuff that i figured it out. We have a stance that is crap at moving in various directions, but is great at moving forward at speed, it makes my life easy, i just go in, I've used this quite happily on the street, because it's not a martial stance like in the films, it's a "I'm fucking coming for you" stance, and I believe it defused the situation. So as I said, if he's done hakko, he hasn't _done_ it, he's collected techniques from it. A shame, i guess, because he could do a lot better if he'd really gotten into it.

    Hehe, I think if no one is answering, it's because there is nothing to say, I cant call what I do hakko ryu, but I dont mind, because anyone on our mat knows what it feels like, and a lot of the guys that stick with it are experienced, on of our boys is pretty handy at MAA/BJJ, on the floor he takes me apart in seconds, but he's always there because he wants to figure out what we're doing, because we do it, and we do it all live, if it isn't working, we don't weasel out of it with excuses, we figure it out and get on with it, and while we have lineage, we don't rely on it for 'proof', the proof is in the pudding, the lineage is nice. Which takes me back to earlier, why legitimise it with a fake history, you just lose reputation, even if your art is solid in what it does.

    So it doesn't surprise me your friend was ejected, my friend and I were discussing this on the way back from training, and i think the trouble is, inventing these stores way back when was fine, but they never realised the internet was coming, and with it, how quickly and easily information could be disseminated rapidly. And once you start a lie, it's a bitch to go back....

    But his vids are ace, I can laugh and cringe all at the same time, a rare treat! My apologies for rambling....
    wow! very interesting. I confess to a total ignorance of this art. So apparently a lot of expatriots huh? That process affects quality control for sure... With Duncan I guess it is one more time where his actual stuff is entirely divorced from what he (allegedly) trained.

    We are back to square one but that does not suprise me...

    How interested in Duncan are you Yoj? Allegedly there is some events going on that might interest you, let me know. OIf you have an interest I will let you know if not, well Duncan is an aquired taste.
  7. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 3:47pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My interest is really a morbid curiosity, the proverbial train crash that you cant help but watch even though it's painful...

    In all honesty I'd love to see it first hand, but I wouldn't go out of my way, and it would be out of my way, I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic!!! But thanks for the offer ;-)
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 5:19pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoj View Post
    My interest is really a morbid curiosity, the proverbial train crash that you cant help but watch even though it's painful...

    In all honesty I'd love to see it first hand, but I wouldn't go out of my way, and it would be out of my way, I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic!!! But thanks for the offer ;-)
    no I don't mean that way! I don't know if I could actually give any account of Duncan's ways. I mean in typical fashion my teaher does not look like him at all... better yet I will show you. let me see if i can pm you as I don't want to derail.
  9. Yoj is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2009 6:02pm


     Style: Aikijujutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No worries, I replied to your pm, just to check I can, if you can bounce one back cool, bear in mind I may be in bed though! I'll reply to your points once I'm sure it works!

    If it doesn't drop me an email address, i'll reply via that.

    Cheers

    Jim
  10. david r is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2009 9:10pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yup thats cass its his son and yes he got his but whippd then and when he got home he stopped practicing 4 years ago. he drinks and does drugs and his father barely talks to him. ohh he also was drunk when he fought another sign of stupidity. oh btw other students have also slamed him to the ground the same way from the dojo when he happened to drop in just before he stopped going. ( or was kicked out? sensei never commented) i believe but am not sure that sensei through his own son out cause he was messin with drugs and underage drinkin. i know he was thrown out of the house several times. his mom let him back in. as far as mc dojo? sensei uses 5 belt system and has taught for free i think that disqualivies the mc dojo idea. As far as the past students here who are unhappy with his way of teaching i ask one question when you competed did you feel good, did you feel competent, did you feel your sensei had the respect of other sensei's? the senseis in the area send their students to us to learn to fight so no matter what you think your gripe is keep it honest and tell it like it is.
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