Page 2 of 5 First 12345 Last
  1. #11
    Scrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
    Posts
    4,290
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They all work. Over/under grip is your friend. Collar elbow grip works fine too. Some just translate easier than others.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

  2. #12
    UpaLumpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Descending into absurdity
    Posts
    6,977
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    How do you know they can be applied without a gi?
    Because they all have direct analogs in wrestling. Obviously, since he gave the names from wrestling.

    Basically the answer is: If you can do it without a gi, it gets taught in wrestling under a different name. The tieups will be different but otherwise it is the same. Except judo has a name for every variant, as opposed to an all encompassing "hip throw".

  3. #13
    UpaLumpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Descending into absurdity
    Posts
    6,977
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I always laugh at judoka who comment on how bjj has a specific name for everything and say:
    "Oh that's just some 'kuzure xxx'. No big deal, I haven't seen it specifically before but it is basically the same."

    Then they go and name off 1000 variations of essentially the same throw.

  4. #14
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
    Posts
    11,746
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Because they all have direct analogs in wrestling. Obviously, since he gave the names from wrestling.
    Your sarcasm-meter is broken :tongue3:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  5. #15
    UpaLumpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Descending into absurdity
    Posts
    6,977
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You've built certain expectations, which a serious response would fulfill.

  6. #16
    Sophist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    986
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    They all work. Over/under grip is your friend. Collar elbow grip works fine too. Some just translate easier than others.
    How would you go about translating morote seoi nage, to pick a fairly gi-dependent throw at random?

    I know a lot of throws do work no-gi, and all of my favourites do, but there are a couple which do rely on a gi grip quite heavily.

  7. #17
    Yrkoon9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Land of the Living
    Posts
    4,593
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's a fucking shoulder throw. People who get all tied up in knots about whether it was done with one arm or two are usually anal.

  8. #18
    Sophist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    986
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    It's a fucking shoulder throw. People who get all tied up in knots about whether it was done with one arm or two are usually anal.
    Well, all right. How about tai-otoshi and ashi guruma, then? You could claim that a spread-legged koshi guruma no-gi was tai-otoshi, I suppose, and a harai without much of a reap for ashi guruma, but the mechanics of those are very different from the gi-based tug and trip.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,187
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The dynamics of tai otoshi and koshi guruma are completely different. It is easy to see the differences when the are performed in either gi or no gi environments. Tai otoshi would probably be much harder to perform without a gi because of the fact that you lead the opponent over your leg. Koshi guruma is seen all the time in MMA.

    And to answer the openning posters question, all of them are applicable to no gi but some are better suited to it than others. The ones that are easily/readily adapted are usually found within common wrestling moves.

  10. #20
    Yrkoon9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Land of the Living
    Posts
    4,593
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My 'O Goshi' occassionally turns into Tai Otoshi or Koshi.

    In fact - the last 3 no-gi tournaments I have done a variation on all 3. But honestly when you start breaking **** down and trying to nitpick the differences you are doing everything you can NOT to see the similarities.

Page 2 of 5 First 12345 Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO