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  1. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 4:23pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They all work. Over/under grip is your friend. Collar elbow grip works fine too. Some just translate easier than others.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 5:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    How do you know they can be applied without a gi?
    Because they all have direct analogs in wrestling. Obviously, since he gave the names from wrestling.

    Basically the answer is: If you can do it without a gi, it gets taught in wrestling under a different name. The tieups will be different but otherwise it is the same. Except judo has a name for every variant, as opposed to an all encompassing "hip throw".
  3. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 5:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I always laugh at judoka who comment on how bjj has a specific name for everything and say:
    "Oh that's just some 'kuzure xxx'. No big deal, I haven't seen it specifically before but it is basically the same."

    Then they go and name off 1000 variations of essentially the same throw.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 5:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Because they all have direct analogs in wrestling. Obviously, since he gave the names from wrestling.
    Your sarcasm-meter is broken :tongue3:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 5:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You've built certain expectations, which a serious response would fulfill.
  6. Sophist is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 5:40pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper
    They all work. Over/under grip is your friend. Collar elbow grip works fine too. Some just translate easier than others.
    How would you go about translating morote seoi nage, to pick a fairly gi-dependent throw at random?

    I know a lot of throws do work no-gi, and all of my favourites do, but there are a couple which do rely on a gi grip quite heavily.
  7. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 6:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's a fucking shoulder throw. People who get all tied up in knots about whether it was done with one arm or two are usually anal.
  8. Sophist is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 6:21pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    It's a fucking shoulder throw. People who get all tied up in knots about whether it was done with one arm or two are usually anal.
    Well, all right. How about tai-otoshi and ashi guruma, then? You could claim that a spread-legged koshi guruma no-gi was tai-otoshi, I suppose, and a harai without much of a reap for ashi guruma, but the mechanics of those are very different from the gi-based tug and trip.
  9. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 8:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The dynamics of tai otoshi and koshi guruma are completely different. It is easy to see the differences when the are performed in either gi or no gi environments. Tai otoshi would probably be much harder to perform without a gi because of the fact that you lead the opponent over your leg. Koshi guruma is seen all the time in MMA.

    And to answer the openning posters question, all of them are applicable to no gi but some are better suited to it than others. The ones that are easily/readily adapted are usually found within common wrestling moves.
  10. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 11:25pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My 'O Goshi' occassionally turns into Tai Otoshi or Koshi.

    In fact - the last 3 no-gi tournaments I have done a variation on all 3. But honestly when you start breaking **** down and trying to nitpick the differences you are doing everything you can NOT to see the similarities.
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