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  1. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 2:52pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    which judo throws absolutely require a gi?

    i've been at judo for about four months now, and i'm wondering how i'm being kind of "pigeon-holed" or misled by the use of the gi.

    i realized after taking a wrestling class a while back that several judo throws won't work without the gi, or at least would be so convoluted and unlikely as to not really warrant practicing.

    tomoe nage, for example? is that even possible without a gi--that is, essentially without handles attached to the guy's torso?

    some throws of course will work universally. ogoshi, seionage, osoto and ouchi gari.. i mean, clearly you have to grab and manipulate the person's arms or head rather than their clothing, but these should all work.

    i mean, i know at least osoto gari and ogoshi work. the others i haven't had the chance to try on anyone without a gi, so i'll stay skeptical.

    (i've watched some of karo parisyan's ufc vids, and he clearly uses some shoulder throws and leg reaps successfully)

    so judoka and other grapplers out there, tell me what you think:

    which judo throws are most dependent on the gi? when the gi comes off, which throws go with it?

    which throws can be most readily used in a no-gi clinch?
  2. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:07pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All of them. You can't do Judo without the Gi. It's impossible!
  3. Zing! is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:18pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DISCLAIMER: I SUCK AT JUDO.

    I've actually had a lot of luck with sumi-gaeshi without a gi. I've generally pulled it off when someone shoots for a double leg and I sprawl, but not quite well enough. When I've pulled it off, I:

    1. Keep whatever underhooks or overhooks I have.
    2. Put my right shin on my opponent's right thigh
    3. Sit down and roll backwards all the way over.
    4. If I've done it right, I'll wind up mounted on my opponent.

    If you decide to do this, be careful because you might just give up the takedown. It's kind of high risk.
  4. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:22pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and illegal by judo competition rules, i imagine.

    are you saying no judo throws work without the gi?

    or that without the gi they are no longer "judo throws?"

    i'm talking about the takedowns themselves, i don't care what you call them.

    seio nage = flying mare

    kata guruma = fireman's carry

    ura nage = suplex

    these are three good examples of "judo throws" that can be applied without the gi. clearly they also have wrestling names, attesting to this fact.

    i know there are others. i just don't trust myself (with my extensive, four-month grappling experience) to be able to name them all, so i'm asking.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:22pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    i've been at judo for about four months now, and i'm wondering how i'm being kind of "pigeon-holed" or misled by the use of the gi.
    Yes, you are being misled. Forget the gi. Go for a tutu instead. Or just settle for a tapout short... and a beanie. Everyone wears them, and nobody users shirts, jackets and **** with handles and folds to grab anyways.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Devil is online now
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    His heart was visible, and the dismal sack that maketh excrement of what is eaten.

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:24pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do tomoe nage without the gi. I like to hold onto my opponent's ears. It takes some work, but I practiced it on my wife for a couple years and got pretty good at it.
  7. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:27pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    zing: that's cool, and that makes sense. glad to hear you had some luck with it.

    el macho: so i probably shouldn't wear a tie and a suit jacket to my first mma fight? you think that would make me easier to throw and choke out? seriously?
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    and illegal by judo competition rules, i imagine
    That's irrelevant dude. You are wondering about the applicability of throws without the gi. So at that point, it doesn't matter what judo comp rules say or don't say.

    This smells fishy...

    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    are you saying no judo throws work without the gi?

    or that without the gi they are no longer "judo throws?"
    To whom are you addressing this question???? :icon_scra

    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    i'm talking about the takedowns themselves, i don't care what you call them.
    Uh? Again, who are you addressing this to??? How's that relevant to your original question?

    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    seio nage = flying mare

    kata guruma = fireman's carry

    ura nage = suplex

    these are three good examples of "judo throws" that can be applied without the gi.
    How do you know they can be applied without a gi? In your original post, you said you only knew about osoto gair and o goshi, and that for the other throws, you were skeptical - see quote below.

    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    i mean, i know at least osoto gari and ogoshi work. the others i haven't had the chance to try on anyone without a gi, so i'll stay skeptical.
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    clearly they also have wrestling names, attesting to this fact.
    Trollishly irrelevant to the original question.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    which throws can be most readily used in a no-gi clinch?
    Watch Karo Parisyan and Hidehiko Yoshida clips and then get back to us.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 3:46pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    zing: that's cool, and that makes sense. glad to hear you had some luck with it.

    el macho: so i probably shouldn't wear a tie and a suit jacket to my first mma fight? you think that would make me easier to throw and choke out? seriously?
    Certainly not. But you are asking whether you can do a throw without a gi. And yes you can. If I have a jacket, you could do mostly the same to me, and I'm not wearing a gi.

    Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that you can. You can execute a throw without a gi. If that's not what you are asking, I'd suggest you formulate your questions better.

    Now if your question is about how to implement a throw "no gi" as in "tapout short and rashguard", you already know the answer to that. You've seen Karo.

    Furthermore, with four months of Judo, you should already know the structure behind several throws, and their variations, and what it takes to do them. Seriously, four months. So this is rare, hyperbolic question.

    Good luck in your first mma fight (*chuckles*)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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