which judo throws absolutely require a gi?

[leere_form]

i've been at judo for about four months now, and i'm wondering how i'm being kind of "pigeon-holed" or misled by the use of the gi.

i realized after taking a wrestling class a while back that several judo throws won't work without the gi, or at least would be so convoluted and unlikely as to not really warrant practicing.

tomoe nage, for example? is that even possible without a gi--that is, essentially without handles attached to the guy's torso?

some throws of course will work universally. ogoshi, seionage, osoto and ouchi gari.. i mean, clearly you have to grab and manipulate the person's arms or head rather than their clothing, but these should all work.

i mean, i know at least osoto gari and ogoshi work. the others i haven't had the chance to try on anyone without a gi, so i'll stay skeptical.

(i've watched some of karo parisyan's ufc vids, and he clearly uses some shoulder throws and leg reaps successfully)

so judoka and other grapplers out there, tell me what you think:

which judo throws are most dependent on the gi? when the gi comes off, which throws go with it?

which throws can be most readily used in a no-gi clinch?

[Yrkoon9]

All of them. You can't do Judo without the Gi. It's impossible!

[Zing!]

DISCLAIMER: I SUCK AT JUDO.

I've actually had a lot of luck with sumi-gaeshi without a gi. I've generally pulled it off when someone shoots for a double leg and I sprawl, but not quite well enough. When I've pulled it off, I:

1. Keep whatever underhooks or overhooks I have.
2. Put my right shin on my opponent's right thigh
3. Sit down and roll backwards all the way over.
4. If I've done it right, I'll wind up mounted on my opponent.

If you decide to do this, be careful because you might just give up the takedown. It's kind of high risk.

[leere_form]

and illegal by judo competition rules, i imagine.

are you saying no judo throws work without the gi?

or that without the gi they are no longer "judo throws?"

i'm talking about the takedowns themselves, i don't care what you call them.

seio nage = flying mare

kata guruma = fireman's carry

ura nage = suplex

these are three good examples of "judo throws" that can be applied without the gi. clearly they also have wrestling names, attesting to this fact.

i know there are others. i just don't trust myself (with my extensive, four-month grappling experience) to be able to name them all, so i'm asking.

[Teh El Macho]

i've been at judo for about four months now, and i'm wondering how i'm being kind of "pigeon-holed" or misled by the use of the gi.

Yes, you are being misled. Forget the gi. Go for a tutu instead. Or just settle for a tapout short... and a beanie. Everyone wears them, and nobody users shirts, jackets and **** with handles and folds to grab anyways.

[Devil]

I do tomoe nage without the gi. I like to hold onto my opponent's ears. It takes some work, but I practiced it on my wife for a couple years and got pretty good at it.

[leere_form]

zing: that's cool, and that makes sense. glad to hear you had some luck with it.

el macho: so i probably shouldn't wear a tie and a suit jacket to my first mma fight? you think that would make me easier to throw and choke out? seriously?

[Teh El Macho]

and illegal by judo competition rules, i imagine

That's irrelevant dude. You are wondering about the applicability of throws without the gi. So at that point, it doesn't matter what judo comp rules say or don't say.

This smells fishy...

are you saying no judo throws work without the gi?

or that without the gi they are no longer "judo throws?"

To whom are you addressing this question???? :icon_scra

i'm talking about the takedowns themselves, i don't care what you call them.

Uh? Again, who are you addressing this to??? How's that relevant to your original question?

seio nage = flying mare

kata guruma = fireman's carry

ura nage = suplex

these are three good examples of "judo throws" that can be applied without the gi.

How do you know they can be applied without a gi? In your original post, you said you only knew about osoto gair and o goshi, and that for the other throws, you were skeptical - see quote below.

i mean, i know at least osoto gari and ogoshi work. the others i haven't had the chance to try on anyone without a gi, so i'll stay skeptical.

clearly they also have wrestling names, attesting to this fact.

Trollishly irrelevant to the original question.

[GoldenJonas]

which throws can be most readily used in a no-gi clinch?

Watch Karo Parisyan and Hidehiko Yoshida clips and then get back to us.

[Teh El Macho]

zing: that's cool, and that makes sense. glad to hear you had some luck with it.

el macho: so i probably shouldn't wear a tie and a suit jacket to my first mma fight? you think that would make me easier to throw and choke out? seriously?

Certainly not. But you are asking whether you can do a throw without a gi. And yes you can. If I have a jacket, you could do mostly the same to me, and I'm not wearing a gi.

Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that you can. You can execute a throw without a gi. If that's not what you are asking, I'd suggest you formulate your questions better.

Now if your question is about how to implement a throw "no gi" as in "tapout short and rashguard", you already know the answer to that. You've seen Karo.

Furthermore, with four months of Judo, you should already know the structure behind several throws, and their variations, and what it takes to do them. Seriously, four months. So this is rare, hyperbolic question.

Good luck in your first mma fight (*chuckles*)