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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dunefield
    An important issue with MA-Therapy in a psychological context is ...
    What, what, what????? In the name of Lord Xenu, what the **** in MA-Therapy????????

    *** EDIT ***I've heard of aerobics therapy, dance therapy, yoga therapy, weightlifting therapy... but MA therapy?????

    Quote Originally Posted by dweidman
    Do you consider Boxing a "combat system"?
    What kind of question is that? Anyways, the answer is yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by dweidman
    The point being made -- if I am reading things correctly -- is that application of your skillz outside of the competition curcuit leads to problems if you don't place moral / ethical boundaries around the use / misuse of force.
    That's not the point being made. The point the author is trying to push between the lines is that MA teachings need to include some moral/philosophical, and they raise the "misuse of force" boogeyman argument to push their agenda.

    Yes, there are moral/ethical problems in the missuse of force, but that's is the responsibility of the adult practioner to know that, not on the MA instructor to tell him so.

    The responsibility to use my skills and strenght (or lack thereof) within a moral context and within the law is my responsibility, mine, and mine only. The knowledge required to come up to that conclusion is mine and mine alone. The acquisition of the necessary knowledge to know what's right or wrong is mine and mine alone.

    If I'm ever in a need to be reminded by my instructor on how I should behave and my responsibility to society when it comes to use force, then I'm a fucking, pathetic, delusional, weak-minded and potentially dangerious inept sociopath, incapable of functioning or communicating with other members of the human race.

    It is not the responsibility of a MA instructor to tell me the difference of what's moral and immoral, what's justified or unjustified. And since it is not his responsibility, by logic one must conclude then, that such teachings are not core, fundamental part of martial arts.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 9/14/2006 4:18pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. sidran is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:22pm


     Style: Kung fu, Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think this pertains to TMAs (or any MA, really) as you would commonly see them (correct me if I'm wrong). I do remember seeing a pamphlet at the doctor's about some sort of karate therapy kind of program. The emphasis of the program itself apparently is on the movements and meditation and whatnot, and is there as a way to have fun, relieve stress, and other things to help with any psychological trouble you are dealing with and need therapy for. No where did I see in the pamphlet anything about "teh d24dly" or even any reference to fighting of any kind at all. It exists solely for its mental benefits.

    Things like that (which I believe the quote refers to) I don't have a problem with, because, from what I understand, it doesn't advocate itself as a method of combat, and it actually would do some good for those who need something like that.
    Last edited by sidran; 9/14/2006 4:24pm at .
  3. anothymaxass is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:26pm


     Style: tony sucks neal

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is alll Retardo Moltanban. In 25 years I have never given a phylosophy class in my gym.

    Guess what, if you are a sociopath going in you will be one going out. rant over.

    If you are a 88 pound weakling, chances are you will be a 110 pound weakling at the end of it.

    Now roid rage is another issue..........................
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:27pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    If I'm ever in a need to be reminded by my instructor on how I should behave and my responsibility to society when it comes to use force, then I'm a fucking, pathetic, delusional, weak-minded and potentially dangerious inept sociopath, incapable of functioning or communicating with other members of the human race.
    I know what you are getting at. But everyone needs a little reminder on a few things now and then - though not this, specifically. Still, what if you are an 8 year old Judoka? It is not soley the parents responsibility to teach their children well. It's a tired cliche, but it really does take a village...

    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    It is not the responsibility of a MA instructor to tell me the difference of what's moral and immoral, what's justified or unjustified. And since it is not his responsibility, by logic one must conclude then, that such teachings are not core, fundamental part of martial arts.
    Again, I know what you are getting at. But, regardless of method, instructors always have a responsibility. DIs teach their recruits to kill. But, already a moral, and thus philosophical, component is present because the military manages to turn people into killers without creating very many psychopaths in the process. This feat is purely due to a desired byproduct of the methodology's philosophical underpinnings. Again, it's not done so much as an integral component. But it still happens.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 9/14/2006 4:32pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

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  5. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:31pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by anothymaxass
    Guess what, if you are a sociopath going in you will be one going out. rant over.
    While there probably is a genetic predisposition, sociopaths can be made, not just born.


    Think about the origins of the word "compete" It comes from "competere": to seek TOGETHER.

    Oh, so "RANT ON!" dude! :smile:
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 9/14/2006 4:39pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  6. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:32pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why do people need to learn philosophy from martial arts? Didnt your dad teach you right from wrong? I cant count how many times my old instructor in TMA would go over right and wrong and morals. I was like WTF? Here, a 20 year old kid is teaching 40 year old men how to behave? Because he has a BB? What a load of ****.

    My dad beat me when I did something wrong. I dont need to here it again in my martial arts class, because they teach commie **** anyway. The Eastern philosophy is very different from ours, I dont like it at all.

    I pay money to learn to fight not to be better.

    Oh wait, I just got out of my BJJ class. They taught us hip throw to armbar. MUST USE, CANT RESTRAIN, KILL CHILDREN!!!!!
  7. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:34pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Well, since the Greeks thought the gods on Olympus boxed and developed boxing as sport in order to bring themselves closer to their gods, you've got the lack of a philosophical component quite wrong there.

    But, if you want to fast forward to "modern" boxing, it was developed as a "civilized" way to settle disputes that didn't require your pissed off neighbor to settle them by sticking you with a shiv while you were taking out the trash, so tthe lack of a philosophical component is wrong here, too.
    The boxing the Greeks and Romans did is a far cry from the scientific boxing of today. Think Lurch throwing John Wayne roundhouse punches. No footwork, no thought of defense, just slugging each other until one of them dropped.

    And yes, you can find philosophy in everything :hitlerdan

    My main emphasis was that boxing (just as an example) tends to be a lot more bare-bones when it says what it's all about. When you get right down to it, martial arts are all about fighting. Many people seem to forget this important concept however.
  8. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:36pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by dweidman
    I am aware of boxing history:

    my post from a week ago here


    Even more to the point about the brutal potential of "boxing":

    "Gouge and Bite, Pull Hair and Scratch:" The Social Significance of Fighting in the Southern Backcountry

    We are in agreement on this:

    Enjoy the read if you haven't seen it before...
    It was going to be one of my next posts actually :thumbsup: Great place, glad to see you're a fan.
  9. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:39pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, I just posted this, I think I just made it up to explain BJJ. Has anyone else ever read this anywhere? Could I have stolen it without remember where I read it?

    BJJ is positional dominance using body mechanics to achieve superior technique.
  10. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by VikingPower
    When you get right down to it, martial arts are all about fighting. Many people seem to forget this important concept however.
    If it were all about fighting ... or just fighting ... there would be no way to teach it. Because it is about TEACHING better fighting, it mandates all of the interpersonal relationships and philosophical implications that come with such a process.

    Take away the fighting? Yes, it's not a martial art.

    Take away the teaching? It's just two roosters in a cock fight.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
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    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
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