222018 Bullies, 4189 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 31 to 36 of 36
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    9/16/2006 9:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nerveasian
    Not to ask for internet-instruction on how to execute this technique, but Tom, could you maybe go into a little more detail? I've wondered every time I see someone perform one of these throws how the force of impact doesn't cause his (or her, apparently) neck to crumple.
    If you watch carefully, when Dietrich is arching, he is thrusting his hips forward and tucking them under Taylor - not so much lifting and falling backwards. At the right moment, Dietrich posts his head and rolls out onto his shoulder. (What's the French word for Ukemi? :smile:) At least that's what Dietrich is trying to do. Things always don't work out that way. But done perfectly, the Dietrich's head would have barely tapped the mat, if at all. Practically the entire impact would have been taken by Taylor.


    Hands down, you need a very strong neck/upper back to pull this off. While the level of conditioning and flexibility necessary is high, it is easily within the realm of any athletic wrestler to achieve, IMO. A wrestler's neck should be strong enough to use practically like another limb already. Given that a back-arch throw is like the "slam-dunk" of wrestling, working up to this is something a lot of wrestlers go about with great enthusiasm.

    Even so, the technical expertise for belly-to-belly throw (Salto) is a step above a belly-to-back (Suplay) because the opponent has more options to counter mid-flight. This can really muck up the works if you don't have the skills to adjust. Crashing down right on your neck along with the added weight of your opponent isn't a good idea no matter what and is more likely with a Salto versus a Suplay.

    Still, I don't think the extra strength and technical expertise to pull this off on an opponent is exactly rocket science for a wrestler to acquire. If memory serves, I think Martell's book on Greco-Roman Wrestling goes into detail on back arching and exercises to help acquire the strength and skill needed to throw people this way. I just moved recently and I have yet to unpack the box which contains this particular book, so I can't say for sure.

    Actually, looking at that clip again, Dietrich is countering with his own Salto the setup of Taylor's Salto. If Taylor managed to pull it off, it would have been a lot worse for Dietrich because, with both his arms tied up, a lot of options for counters mid-flight would have been sealed off. Given Taylor could have release his overhooks, the fact that a 400 lb-er went for the full ride is a little odd. But, with the realization this was a counter attack and throw, Dietrich probably just caught Taylor mentally in mid-commitment.

    ... and not too many people can pull off a counter attack and Salto on a 400 lb person in the first place, so perhaps Taylor's skills on counter-counters were slightly deficient due to a lack of being in that situation very often. :smile:


    BTW, I just spotted another alternate spelling for suplex/suplay: suplesse. It's in an old paperback by Tom Jarman called "Wrestling for Beginners" I just picked up last weekend. Yard sales rule!
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 9/16/2006 9:42pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. bad credit is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Posts
    1,448

    Posted On:
    9/18/2006 2:57pm


     Style: MMA, JKD philosophy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I heard one of the commentators in the UFC call it a suplay. Uh, I forget his name, but it was the guy who used to be a collegiate or olympic champ wrestler. He did commentary in a lot of the early UFCs.

    I always hate it when MMA guys like Hughes call the guillotine choke a "gill-o-tine" when it's pronounced "gee-o-tine." It's french! The l's are silent!

    I always thought tawara gaeshi's beginning grip looked like the start of a pro wrasslin' powerbomb. http://www.judoinfo.com/images/nauta/tawarag.gif
  3. nerveasian is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    218

    Posted On:
    9/19/2006 11:28pm


     Style: Getting mounted

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks a ton for the info and sources, Tom.
  4. wakinonioi is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    koko
    Posts
    1,704

    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 4:16am


     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bad credit
    I always hate it when MMA guys like Hughes call the guillotine choke a "gill-o-tine" when it's pronounced "gee-o-tine." It's french! The l's are silent!


    You hate it when Americans don't follow French pronunciation? You must be unhappy a large majority of the time.
    Optional signature you may use to appear at bottom of your signatures.
  5. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    5,602

    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 10:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bad credit
    It's french! The l's are silent!
    [more pedantic blah blah blah]

    Actually, it's not a French word in this instance. When spoken by an English speaker, Guillotine is an English word of French origin. Both pronunciations you wrote are in the dictionary, dependant on which dictionary you picked up. So, Matt Hughes is correct.

    However, Suplex/Suplay/Souplesse is not in an English dictionary. It's a French word.

    (There is a trademarked brand name of a type of cloth called "Supplex" - double "p" - owned by DuPont and is pronounced "SUHp plecks" )

    [/more pedantic blah blah blah]


    BTW, If you are curious, I think there is a Throwdown video on this site where Annatrocity attempts a Suplex and fails. You could probably compare her hip thrust/tuck to Dietrich's and see how it went awry, but I'm going off memory here. I'd have to see her attempt again.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 9/20/2006 10:31am at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  6. Anna Kovacs is offline
    Anna Kovacs's Avatar

    Spear Sister

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    6,421

    Posted On:
    9/20/2006 10:55am

    supporting membersupporting member
     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeh, i kind of fucked that one up. Whoopsie.

    I wish the ones that I pull off in class were the ones that made it on video but what can I say, i'm honest, if my less then glorious moments make it on film, so be it ;)

    The problem with that one was primarily that I took him straight back down on top of me rather then off to the side somewhat. I also didnt get under him enough and was trying to muscle it to much and thus didnt so much arch as much as pull him down on top of me.
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.