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  1. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 11:02am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Was Kano a believer in pressure point knockouts?

    I posted this in a reply to another thread. However, I find it very interesting and would like to see what the more knowledgable judoka think of the following excerpt from a book I am reading. If the mod gods feel this is a double post and want to delete either this thread or my reply so be it. I just though it was thread deserving in the MA History forum.

    I am about half way through a book titled "The Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu [Judo]" by H. Irving Hancock and Katsukuma Higashi. I bought the book for historical purposes because it was originally published in 1905 and has been republished identical to the original.

    The last chapter of the book speaks of "Kuatsu, or the Restoration of Life". If this was truly a teaching of Kano the following reads like Judoka were originally chi loving hippies and proponents of the one touch knockout. Pretty interesting from a historical perspective. The experienced judoka on this forum may have more information concerning these particular authors or the following representation of resuscitation techniques, Kuatsu, employed in the Kano system.


    "Almost from the inception of jiu-jitsu, probably twenty-five centuries ago, the Japanese began to get inklings of the possibilities of that wonderful science of vitality which has since become known under the name of kuatsu. Persons who have fainted, or who have been struck unconscious, are quickly - almost instantly - brought back to full possession of their faculties.

    Originally kuatsu was, no doubt, employed solely for reviving victims of attacks. In later centuries however, it was discovered that this strange science was potent in cases of drowning, sunstroke, and injuries from other accidental causes.

    In the following pages every authentic phase of this wonderful yet simple work of revivification is given. The directions are few and simple, yet great care must be observed by the student. Success cannot attend carelessness. The vital points that must be touched in the manipulations must be found with exactitude or the desired results will not follow.

    It is recommended that the student, when merely practicing, make the touches and other manipulations very lightly. It is a curious fact, which will be noted by the reader, that many of the points of the body touched in the kuatsu manipulations are also points that are touched in attack for the purpose of causing death or insensibility.

    AT ALL TIMES FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS WITH PAINS-TAKING CARE !"

    Hancock and Higashi, The Complete Kano Jiu-Jitsu [Judo], Page 507, Dover Publications, Inc.

    Pretty interesting IMO.
  2. LolodesBois is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 11:41am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    EVERY japanese ryu has pressure points in it's teaching nothing new here.

    They were 'advanced' because you need to have a sound delivery system in order to hit them.

    You do know that previously there were loads or reanimation techniques taught in JMA, That they did the "mouth to mouth" and heart massage at least a hundred years before it was introduced in the west right ?

    Nothing 'Hippy' about this. The hippy thing is to think that you can learn pressure points and apply them without a sound delivery system.
    Martial Arts is like sex, if you over complicate it with exotic sounding names, theories and principles, you end up fucking yourself in the ass. -Ronin69
  3. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 12:09pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is also a statement made in the book by Hancock, that, essentially, he had been "revived from death" many times during his judo training in Japan around the turn of the 20th century by the use of Kuatsu.

    I'll try and find the exact quote from the book when I go home later and post it. It is probably all a matter of perspective in that anything "new" with regard to medicine or manipulation of the human body may have been view as much more fantastic, bordering on mystical, back at the turn of the century. Since then we have obviously advanced in our general pool of knowledge on the subject and can pinpoint with some degree of accuracy why you are able to get a particular result from a particular bodily manipulation, whether its acupuncture or chiropractic related.

    The point of the initial post is that the Kuatsu representation in the book appears to be leaning more toward the mystical side as opposed to the empirical scientific side with which you see the cause and effect of various judo techniques explained today.
  4. LolodesBois is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 12:40pm

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    Ha ok.

    Well yeah I would guess that before we knew why certain reviving method works they put some 'mystic' on it since they couldn't explain it any other way.

    Historically they probably trained loads of kuatsu to keep the working ones and disregard the non working ones as time went by and didn't really care as to 'why' it worked.

    From what I know when Judo's kuatsu was introduced in the west some people went to doctors and ask if it was possible that these manipulation, like mouth to mouth and heart massage, could work and were laughed at because 'scientifically' their was no way breathing out into somebody could revive him or that pressing against the rib cage could start (or stop) the heart.
    Martial Arts is like sex, if you over complicate it with exotic sounding names, theories and principles, you end up fucking yourself in the ass. -Ronin69
  5. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 1:37pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Isn't that kuatsu whatever used when someone gets choked out and you bring them out of it.
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  6. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 1:40pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kuatsu are recessitation techniques I think and they actually work.
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  7. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 1:42pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW this thread is false advertisement.
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  8. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 3:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GoJU has strikes to pressure points.

    STRIKES

    That's the difference between realistic pressure point techniques and a lot of ****.

    You have to actually hit the points hard to see an effect.

    For example a good thai kick to the keg shuts down the nerves momentarily.

    Same thing with a chop to the neck.

    Anyways most pressure point technique nowadays have become a weak attack system for nonathletic, unskilled people to convince themselves they're deadly.
  9. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 4:27pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    For example a good thai kick to the keg shuts down the nerves momentarily.
    Its also a good way to really piss everyone off at the party.
  10. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2006 7:58pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sure that his idea of pressure point usage was not what most of the Jackoffs nowadays think of. It is clear in his books and other Judo books that they are primarily used for reviving an injured/unconcious person. All of the methods have been proven, just some of them have been improved upon by modern medicine.

    Basically, pressure points work. Modern medicine tells us that. Its just the western mystification (read-pussification) of martial arts has turned it into chi balls and voodoo.
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