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  1. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 10:49pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lights Out
    Now, another question, lifting heavy weights in an explosive manner, couldn't be considered as a kind of power training too?
    Within the bounds of good form, you should always be lifting as fast as possible, regardless of how heavy the weight is.

    When I was talking about power training, I should have clarified that I wasn't referring to low, low weights, but working within the range of, say 55-85% of your 1RM. With compound movements, such as power cleans or pull ups, joint stress really shouldn't be an issue. I don't remember ever reading anything that specifically refered to this problem at all, but I would guess that low-weight exercises involving pushing or pressing would provide the highest risk for joint injury.

    It's been my experience that overcoming the inertia of moving weight adds an additional element of challenge, but one that can be safely overcome with proper technique.
  2. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 6:54am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK.

    Problem is, there's nobody who could teach me proper form to do olimpic lifts and such.

    So, I'm afraid to include those in my workouts, since I'd rather not do them with bad form.

    *sigh*
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 8:00am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJu - Joe
    Anyways so the consenus is lift heavier weights for lower reps, take amino acids and roll more?
    I'll add glutamine and your occasional jogging peppered with short "balls out" sprints... and be willing to take a break if your body still needs to recover. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the problem you are facing is that by the time pple are getting ready to roll, you are exhausted by the CSW "warmup", right? That's what happens to me. So it's not the rolling itself.

    And that's what has bothered me in the last few months. So that's why I'm still not 100% sure about the "roll more" approach. For me, if it's BJJ with gi, it doesn't kill me that much. No gi, that's where I die. And Judo newaza, there is no way (as far as I can see) to take it easy and not go balls out. You go balls out again and again and again.

    I'd say reduce the number of classes for a few weeks, or skip rolling for a few weeks. This is because the issue here is to give you enough recovery time so that your body can adapt and get stronger.

    I see this no different from hitting a plateu with bench presses.

    If I'm stuck at bench pressing 200lbs and no matter what I do, I can't get pass that, and I start to see I'm getting weaker, that's a clue to me to take a break and try other alternatives for a few weeks before trying again. A sport is a sport.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I'm approaching this. We'll see...

    By the way, last night at the gym I got this nifty, nice container of glutamine, super fucking cool for $29.99


    See, for $29.99 I get 60 servings of 5,000mg of glutamine, 1,000mg of vitamin C and 5g of protein. Strawberry flavored, easy to disolve and taste great with orange juice.

    At a minimum, it would last for 60 days if you take only one serving a day, but I plan to take two (at that price, hell yeah). Tonight I'm going to buy one more just to keep in in stock :)

    After two weeks of putting them back on my daily diet, I swear my balls on glutamine and aminoacids!!!!!

    *** EDIT ***

    FYI, I'd like to say that I've been able to sleep well 6-7 hours and wake up well rested since I started to take aminoacids and glutamine daily, plus I'm still at 158lbs whereas in the past I would swing back 145lbs in a matter of weeks.

    Now I'm more convinced than ever that this sense of well-being is not just some sort of mental placebo effect. **** YEAH!!!!!!
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 9/15/2006 8:35am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 8:38am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lights Out
    OK.

    Problem is, there's nobody who could teach me proper form to do olimpic lifts and such.

    So, I'm afraid to include those in my workouts, since I'd rather not do them with bad form.

    *sigh*
    Your right to be conservative about stuff like this. My advice is for you to learn excellent form for squats and deadlifts. Not only are these fundamental to a lot of more advanced power movements, you're far more likely to find a trainer who can help you with this. Not only that, but because these lifts can be done slowly, you can pay more attention to form. These lifts are pretty important, so--regardless of where you go with all this--you'll be doing yourself a favour by learning them.

    Getting back to your main issues, though, I still believe that becoming better technically is your best recourse. If I found myself gassing early in every class, I would try to find someone whom I could drill with instead of just packing it in. This practice will not only increase your mental endurance and allow you to practice your skills within tighter parameters, it will also force you to practice relaxed technique. ****, maybe you just to roll more when you're already tired.
  5. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 9:59am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    Your right to be conservative about stuff like this. My advice is for you to learn excellent form for squats and deadlifts. Not only are these fundamental to a lot of more advanced power movements, you're far more likely to find a trainer who can help you with this. Not only that, but because these lifts can be done slowly, you can pay more attention to form. These lifts are pretty important, so--regardless of where you go with all this--you'll be doing yourself a favour by learning them.
    Yeah, as much as I'd like to include clean and jerk (the most complete lifting movement, IMHO), I stick to squats, deadlifts and other lifts easyly monitored by your run-of-the-mill gym instructor.

    Regarding glutamine, I don't know if you, El Macho have read this.

    The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.
    And this, posted in another forum:

    10.3. Glutamine
    Here are the reasons to take glutamine.
    1) Immune support. Supplemental use of glutamine, either in oral, enteral, or parenteral form, increases intestinal villous height, stimulates gut mucosal cellular proliferation, and maintains mucosal integrity. It also prevents intestinal hyperpermeability and bacterial translocation, which may be involved in sepsis and the development of multiple organ failure. One study reported that athletes reported fewer incidences of upper respiratory tract infections while supplementing with glutamine (2 grams) after they ran.

    2) Gastrointestinal support. 70-80% of orally administered glutamine is absorbed into the cells of your GI tract. It remains there and is metabolized by those cells without ever reaching the blood stream (image). In sicknesses such as sepsis it has been shown to help improve survival because of improved GI tract function.
    Thatís pretty much it.
    There is no real benefit for someone looking to build bigger muscles. That 10% of dietary glutamine that gets past the GI tract is taken up by the liver where it is converted into sugar (gluconeogenesis) and stored as glycogen in the liver.

    Don't let in-vitro research fool you into thinking oral glutamine will have an effect on a healthy individuals muscle mass. Yes, glutamine does regulate protein synthesis to a certain extent under some situations. However, you can't make it happen by taking it orally. Don't let ads with some pro-bodybuilder holding a bottle of glutamine fool you. Even if that pro-bodybuilder is taking it...it isn't doing anything for him either.
    Here are a couple good "in-vivo" research studies to start with:
    1. Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T. Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.
    2. Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance. J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60.

    Keep in mind that if you are eating protein powders, especially any thing with whey in it, you are getting plenty of glutamine. The question of glutamines worth in the newsletter centered on its effect on building mass and/or strength, not anything to do with the gastrointestinal track.
    In short, only 47-50% of orally administered glutamine can be expected to make it past the liver and other organs, into the blood stream. And only about 10% can be expected to reach extracellular spaces.[Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, Patel A, Simeoni M, Rennie MJ. Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Journal of Applied Physiology. 1999 Jun;86(6):1770-7] Now, this is the main argument against glutamine. 90% of the glutamine you take orally never even makes it to your muscles. This isn't to say it is wasted. Your GI tract loves glutamine from reasons explained earlier. If you are having intestinal problems nothing is better. If you are trying to increase protein synthesis by loading glutamine, it isn't going to work.
    This is supposed to be taken form a HST faq, but link wasn't posted and I can't seem to find it, so take it with a grain of salt, if you may.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 10:14am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    Your right to be conservative about stuff like this. My advice is for you to learn excellent form for squats and deadlifts. Not only are these fundamental to a lot of more advanced power movements, you're far more likely to find a trainer who can help you with this. Not only that, but because these lifts can be done slowly, you can pay more attention to form. These lifts are pretty important, so--regardless of where you go with all this--you'll be doing yourself a favour by learning them.

    Getting back to your main issues, though, I still believe that becoming better technically is your best recourse. If I found myself gassing early in every class, I would try to find someone whom I could drill with instead of just packing it in. This practice will not only increase your mental endurance and allow you to practice your skills within tighter parameters, it will also force you to practice relaxed technique. ****, maybe you just to roll more when you're already tired.
    El Mono Repugnante FTW!!!!
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 10:42am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to clarify that for me it's not an issue of gassing early or simply learning better technique (not that that's wrong)

    So let me out line what a CSW class is

    -Start with a nice brisk normal jog.

    -Then do a wrestlers scuttle (i I don't know the right name) as we're running so that you're facing inside squatted down real low with your hands up while still briskly going in a circle.

    -Then into lunge walking

    -then go to the end of the large mat space divide into two groups. first group runs to the end does three high knee jumps, runs to the middle does another three, go back to the other side do an other three then runs back (as quickly as you can) to the beginning then the other group goes. Repeat three times.

    (it's about here I feel my muscles getting weak in the legs)

    -Then joint push ups. Where one guy lies down and the other person in north south position grabs your hands and does 10 push ups. Then from the prone position you do 10 lifts of the person. Then you flip over and repeat.

    -Next is joint leg lift / crunches where you hold hands with your partner facing each other legs on either side and proceed duo leg lift in tandem over your partner and bring it to the other side with out touching the ground. You go for 30 then 20 and then 10 seconds as hard as you can.

    -Next exercise, one partner goes onto all fours. You reach under and roll over them while holding on and then bridge back and propel yourself back over without ever letting go. repeat 10 times and then switch.

    - Then fire man carry while walking in a circle stopping to do 5 squats every 5 seconds.

    Now the Warm up is over.

    -Grab pads. Start of working combo's; Jab, cross, slip, body shop, while moving around and every couple minutes a new move is added such as block the shoot and take down, so by the end the combo is. Jab, cross, slip, body shot, bob weave, jab cross, block the shoot uppercut cross. then you get to hold pads. The guy I held pads for last time hit so hard I had to make sure I pushed back from having him hit me with the pads so it was work out both ways.

    -Then 3 minutes of calling out combos, including sprawl (my least favorite) thai kick and shoot, then 3 minutes on the ground in the guard doing body, body head combos, then down the middle, then post up and ground and Pound (while the guy holds pads) then repeat while going as hard as you can. The you holds pads for your partners.

    -Then we work some ground techniques.

    -AND then at the 1:10 minute mark of class we finally get roll for 20 minutes.

    Which by the way is CSW rolling which means you can use body shots and slaps to the head while on the ground

    Believe me by this point I am all technique and no strength as I am totally wiped out.

    My goal in asking about weight training was to find the best routine to held me get my muscle endurance up for this type of training.
  8. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 11:31am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Have you seen the Bas Rutten worlout viedos on youtube?

    Just a suggestion.
  9. Goju - Joe is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 11:48am

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     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This Bas vidoe has nothing to do with this thread but is very coool

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF1SH-Th80E
  10. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/15/2006 11:52am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I meant this one, altrough it's not complete. You can order the videos if you like what you see.
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