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  1. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 8:21am

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But, anyway, the "roll more" advice, as sound and correct it is (the best way to improve, both physically and technically at a given activity is peforming that activity more, that's nothing but common sense), is kinda obvious and I'm willing to bet that Goju-Joe was already aware of this.

    Question is, is there a way to improve grappling endurance on top of rolling more?

    If not, please, explain why. If yes, please, suggestions.

    This question is not targeted at anybody in particular, but to anybody who may want to answer it.

    As I said in my previous post, I'm not sure that a strenght-endurance training with weights hava a significative carry-over to grappling, or at least significative enough to bother with.

    Personally, there is only a reason for me to pick up a dumbell, barbell or whatever: to become bigger and stronger.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 9:17am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I don't see rolling as the way to get better at rolling. Paradox, I know.

    See, when I was back in college, I was surprised by seeing the members of the track-and-field team spending a lot of time in the gym doing jerk and cleans, squats and what not. Sprinters don't train for the 100m by only running 100m over and over and over. They periodize, they hit the gym and pump the iron, they jog. They taylor their training according to their individual needs.

    Just as 100m, 200m, etc is the goal of the sprinter, so is grappling for a grappler. Rolling is the only way for a grappler to learn and fine tune his skills, but it cannot possibly be the one-solution for every person to develop/maintain the physical attributes required for this activity.

    It may be for those who have done it since their teen years and are in their early 20's. It cannot possibly be for somebody in the 30's. At that point, one has to see and think "ok, what do I need to keep up? what will work for me? rolling? jogging? interval training? taking a break?"

    I think everybody here knows the importance of working hard, and that no one is looking for shortcuts to make it easier. That is, we are honestly trying to work hard and get some gains, whatever gains that may be. With that in mind, consider the following:

    When you HONESTLY push your body, it will tell one of the following:

    1. Man, this **** is hard. I like it. Push it more.

    2. Oh crap! Oh crap! Oh crap! Holy fucking ****, I'm gonna die.

    The former tells you that you are working hard, but can still keep it up and make progress.

    The later tells you you are overtraining, that you will not make any progress, and even worse, you will lose strenght, muscle and possibly health.

    With the former, you can legitimally push it harder, provided there is an intelligent plan behind it.

    With the later, you gotta take a step back, do some other supplementary activity, and possibly take a break. There is no point in simply pushing it. There is no point in simply rolling more. Improvement will not happen. Adaptation will not happen.

    You can keep going, but it will be sub optimal.


    When I get tired, I don't roll, or just roll the first 4 minutes, and wait until the last 4 to roll again. There is no point in keep trying to rolling when I know I'm physically and mentally incapable to keep going. As a matter of fact, it is clear in my mind that if ever hit a severe obstacle, I will stop rolling until my body recovers and adapt.

    The better alternative is to re-examine my diet, explore supplementary exercises AT A DIFFERENT TIME OF THE DAY that will help me adapt, and perhaps take a break to let my body recover and get stronger.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 12:28pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lights Out
    Question is, is there a way to improve grappling endurance on top of rolling more?
    Become more techinically proficient.

    But wait a tick there, fella! In addition to being completely vague, aren't you just using another set of fancy English words for "roll more"?

    Actually, there are a number of supplementary training methods that will improve your overall performance. These include drilling, practicing slow, accurate movements, creating gameplans and studying techniques/competition footage. On the more physical side, although other strength training methods might be necessary to bring you up to the appropriate level, it's really only power training that has specific physical carryover to applied technique (IMCMO).

    Why use supplementary training methods? Because training can be hard on the body. Because we are not always able to make it to the gym. Because even though your body might need mats and training space, your brain doesn't; it comes with you wherever you go. In fact, it might someday replace the iPod.

    I haven't seen the way you roll and stuff, but the odds are that you've got a lot of room to relax more, stop muscling out of **** and stop fighting King Pyrrhus-style battles for submissions when your interests would be best served by moving onto something else. I believe that that's what you need to work on, not finding ways to increase your capacity for the same problematic style.
  4. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 1:21pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well said, simian.
  5. Lights Out is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 2:50pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While all this stuff is fancy and ****, I get the impression, whenever certain posters appear on this kinda topics, that any supplementary training not sport specific (drills, sparring, bagwork, rolling and that kinda stuff) is a waste of time since it has no significative carry-over to sport-specific activities. I must underline that it's an impression what I get, and not a firm, straightforward assertion, because such posters usually tend to be vage an unprecisse, and act as if they have the secret of ultimate wisdom when it comes to training, a secret they are not willing to share.

    I, for one, would like to get a straight answer on this for once, altrough I know that's too much to ask and I'll never get such satisfaction in my whole life.

    And I swear to God I asked politely and sometimes I played the little games said posters wanted me to play in order to get an answer, but to no avail. So excuse me if I come as a little sour.

    So:

    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    although other strength training methods might be necessary to bring you up to the appropriate level, it's really only power training that has specific physical carryover to applied technique (IMCMO).
    I guess I'd better ask small questions for starters, Could yo please explain to me de difference between strenght training and power training? Links, confussed scientifical explanations and practical examples are wellcome.

    P.S. My previous rant was not directed at RepulsiveMonkey in particular.
  6. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kein Haar
    Wow, it seems like everyone has a problem with gassing, eh?

    Hm.

    Maybe that's a mechanism which prevents you from...oh, I dunno...dying?

    Strength training's MAIN benefit is injury prevention. As El Macho touched on, rolling isn't going to help shore up your weak links....PHYSICALLY. This isn't a matter of a stronger medialis improving anything about one's game other than making sure an acute problem with it is going to sideline you.

    Short of endeavors which in themselves have considerable (or complete) overlap with gym movements, your basic performance isn't going to profoundly change unless, as Anthony puts it, you simply ROLL MORE. And that's relative to yourself. If someone else is outpacing you at every turn, given the same approximate experience, you should start thinking about blaming your parents.
    Kein Harr just saved somebody from getting struck over this thread.

    The low weight/high reps methodology is the devil. Use the weight room to build strength and supplementary martial arts training to improve your endurance.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honest to God, Vikingo, your avatar is just fucking aweful!!!!!

    . ed - yeah, low weight/high rep sets are poop.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jesus, fine! I'll change it. One sec.
  9. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:40pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    Honest to God, Vikingo, your avatar is just fucking aweful!!!!!

    . ed - yeah, low weight/high rep sets are poop.
    I laughed at it, then felt bad for the day.
  10. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    9/14/2006 4:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blasphemy is more my style anyways.
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