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  1. #141

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Woah she has a whole website http://www.jamieeason.com/personal/bio.php sweet.

    and obviously BJJ is the best and everything else is t3h gay durrr

  2. #142

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson View Post
    Honors English when you're 15? correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't honors mean that you are in University?

    And I love fighting pure bred wrestlers. They have no idea what a choke is, much less how to defend one.

    Nope, Honors is in middle and highschool....Im not totally sure about middle school....but definently high school

  3. #143

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a vid recently causing some flame wars among grappling enthusiasts in youtube. It's called: ''Why BJJ Players are learning wrestling and not Judo''. I would post the link to the vid, but the forum won't allow me until I post at least five comments.

    To those who watched it: A good number of judo guys in the comment section got pissed and started their typical raging and apologism, ranging from the typical' '' wrastlers come all the time to my dojo and we always toy with them, so we're superior'' , or ''BJJ and Sambo are just judo offshoots, so all their success should be credited to judo (despite the obvious differences and actual judo never actually achieving much in the grappling MMA scene)'', to ''this is bullshit, he knows jack about judo'', and even one ''nobody fights in singlets out there''......
    Maybe they're right, maybe they're bullshit. I'm just a noob, so I can' say too much about the matter. I would like to hear what the experienced guys here have to say about this vid.

  4. #144
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metallist View Post
    There's a vid recently causing some flame wars among grappling enthusiasts in youtube. It's called: ''Why BJJ Players are learning wrestling and not Judo''. I would post the link to the vid, but the forum won't allow me until I post at least five comments.

    To those who watched it: A good number of judo guys in the comment section got pissed and started their typical raging and apologism, ranging from the typical' '' wrastlers come all the time to my dojo and we always toy with them, so we're superior'' , or ''BJJ and Sambo are just judo offshoots, so all their success should be credited to judo (despite the obvious differences and actual judo never actually achieving much in the grappling MMA scene)'', to ''this is bullshit, he knows jack about judo'', and even one ''nobody fights in singlets out there''......
    Maybe they're right, maybe they're bullshit. I'm just a noob, so I can' say too much about the matter. I would like to hear what the experienced guys here have to say about this vid.
    Jeez, the early '90s are calling yet again...
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  5. #145
    BKR's Avatar
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    http://www.bjjee.com/videos/5-reason...-and-not-judo/
    Here are are the five reasons:

    A lot of the Wrestling takedowns are low risk-high reward- Single leg, high crotch etc are low risk- high reward under the IBJJF rules set vs a Judo throw which is high risk high reward. A lot of times you are giving up your back for a Seoi Nage or a Harai Goshi when you’re turning into a BJJ player.
    There’s less of a learning curve for Wresting than for Judo. It takes years to learn and master Judo whereas a BJJ player after a few months of Wrestling can develop a respectable takedown game. Judo techniques are extremely technical and require endless repetition and timing. Another important point, if someone has bad wrestling takedowns but his opponent has worse takedown defense, he will still be able to take him down 9 times out of 10. This is not the case in with Judo throws.
    Current Judo rules limit success in BJJ. Modern Judo doesn’t allow leg grabs, have restricted gripping rules which make it less accessible to BJJ.
    The Judogi makes it difficult to bridge the gap to No Gi BJJ.
    Judo is difficult to apply to No Gi BJJ without tweaking it with Wrestling.
    A lot of Judo clubs (unless they are high level) lack the ‘grind mentality’ that Wrestling has. That Wrestling grind really helps in a sport like BJJ, where it’s very static strength, meticulous and slow. In Judo, you don’t have to apply that pressure all the time. It’s more explosive strength.

    Bolded is not true.

    Risk versus reward I tend to agree with.
    Mastering Judo versus developing a decent takedown game, apples and oranges, LOL!

    BJJEE asked Matt D’Aquino, a 2008 Beijing Judo Olympian, who a special DVD series aimed at improving takedowns of BJJ players: Judo for BJJ :



    In your opinion, is it better for a Jiu-Jiteiro in order to improve his standing Jiu-Jitsu to learn takedowns that are specific to Jiu-Jitsu or to learn Judo on the side?

    To improve their stand up it would be awesome if BJJ guys could attend a Judo class a few days a week but unfortunately most of us are time poor and can only commit to one sport at a time. If this is the case then I think BJJ practitioners should learn a modified version of stand up tailored for specifically for the BJJ posture, movement, rules etc. So should bjj guys learn traditional Judo for BJJ, the answer is no. They should learn modified techniques that allow them to flourish in their art. Many Judo techniques finish you off in a great position in Judo and a bad position in BJJ, so it is important to choose Jiujitsu specific throwing techniques and drill them. Rodolfo Viera’s stand up game is a perfect example of modified Judo techniques for BJJ.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  6. #146
    Michael Tzadok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    http://www.bjjee.com/videos/5-reason...-and-not-judo/
    Here are are the five reasons:

    A lot of the Wrestling takedowns are low risk-high reward- Single leg, high crotch etc are low risk- high reward under the IBJJF rules set vs a Judo throw which is high risk high reward. A lot of times you are giving up your back for a Seoi Nage or a Harai Goshi when you’re turning into a BJJ player.
    There’s less of a learning curve for Wresting than for Judo. It takes years to learn and master Judo whereas a BJJ player after a few months of Wrestling can develop a respectable takedown game. Judo techniques are extremely technical and require endless repetition and timing. Another important point, if someone has bad wrestling takedowns but his opponent has worse takedown defense, he will still be able to take him down 9 times out of 10. This is not the case in with Judo throws.
    Current Judo rules limit success in BJJ. Modern Judo doesn’t allow leg grabs, have restricted gripping rules which make it less accessible to BJJ.
    The Judogi makes it difficult to bridge the gap to No Gi BJJ.
    Judo is difficult to apply to No Gi BJJ without tweaking it with Wrestling.
    A lot of Judo clubs (unless they are high level) lack the ‘grind mentality’ that Wrestling has. That Wrestling grind really helps in a sport like BJJ, where it’s very static strength, meticulous and slow. In Judo, you don’t have to apply that pressure all the time. It’s more explosive strength.

    Bolded is not true.

    Risk versus reward I tend to agree with.
    Mastering Judo versus developing a decent takedown game, apples and oranges, LOL!

    BJJEE asked Matt D’Aquino, a 2008 Beijing Judo Olympian, who a special DVD series aimed at improving takedowns of BJJ players: Judo for BJJ :



    In your opinion, is it better for a Jiu-Jiteiro in order to improve his standing Jiu-Jitsu to learn takedowns that are specific to Jiu-Jitsu or to learn Judo on the side?

    To improve their stand up it would be awesome if BJJ guys could attend a Judo class a few days a week but unfortunately most of us are time poor and can only commit to one sport at a time. If this is the case then I think BJJ practitioners should learn a modified version of stand up tailored for specifically for the BJJ posture, movement, rules etc. So should bjj guys learn traditional Judo for BJJ, the answer is no. They should learn modified techniques that allow them to flourish in their art. Many Judo techniques finish you off in a great position in Judo and a bad position in BJJ, so it is important to choose Jiujitsu specific throwing techniques and drill them. Rodolfo Viera’s stand up game is a perfect example of modified Judo techniques for BJJ.
    As both a wrestling guy and a sambo guy before I took up BJJ, I'm going to agree with BKR above. My Sambo acquired over a decade, has actually done be better than wrestling in BJJ. However, if I were to start teaching take downs to a BJJ guy, I would start with the wrestling. Take downs are worth 2 points, no matter what you pull off. Second to that, some throws have been called slams by overzealous judges resulting in a DQ, where as single leg, double leg, latteral ect of wrestling typically don't return an opponent to the mat as hard and thus are in less likelihood of getting me DQ'd. They are also easier(in my opinion) to teach than many of the Judo throws.

  7. #147
    BKR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Tzadok View Post
    As both a wrestling guy and a sambo guy before I took up BJJ, I'm going to agree with BKR above. My Sambo acquired over a decade, has actually done be better than wrestling in BJJ. However, if I were to start teaching take downs to a BJJ guy, I would start with the wrestling. Take downs are worth 2 points, no matter what you pull off. Second to that, some throws have been called slams by overzealous judges resulting in a DQ, where as single leg, double leg, latteral ect of wrestling typically don't return an opponent to the mat as hard and thus are in less likelihood of getting me DQ'd. They are also easier(in my opinion) to teach than many of the Judo throws.
    I'm sure I get a resigned look on my face when I get asked to "teach me some Judo" in BJJ class. First, I make sure it's OK with the coach, second, I make sure I'm already too tired to keep training myself, because I'm paying to train, not getting paid to teach.

    I'm not mercenary about it, but I teach judo very seriously 3 days a week (teenagers who compete at national level), and would teach more if I lived closer to the dojo.

    Because it's complicated, although I may make it more complicated than it needs to be. In any case, I think that given how BJJ works and is scored, "wrestling" is the way to go for faster results. Especially since most BJJ guys who compete seem to rely on wrestling takedowns, it's best to be familiar with that style of grappling for the sake of competition. That's not to say that single/doubles/laterals/ etc. are not technical, because they sure as hell are.

    The advantage to Judo would be in learning jacket manipulation for gi-competition (kumi kata) which can be a powerful tool to control an opponent, and a big advantage over a person who is not trained correctly (as in how to control an opponent via gripping/posture/stance/angles).

    Personally, if I were to compete (highly unlikely at the rate I'm going) at BJJ, I'd not be concerned with huge throws. I'd focus on quick low risk attacks that put me in position to quickly apply a sub, or at least get into a dominate position. Which means ashi waza. But at 30+ years in at Judo, I kind of breath ashi waza and kumi kata, noobs, not so much, and that learning curve is kinda steep.
    Falling for Judo since 1980

    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

  8. #148

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting about throws being called slams, I'm in the process of getting my game together for a couple of bjj tournaments and I hadn't thought about what it would look like if I pulled off something from my Judo game in a bjj setting and the rules around it.

    To the guy who necro'd this thread: On the issue of takedowns, I can't help but feel that (at least anecdotally) a lot of jiujiteros overplay the simplicity of wrestling techniques and over estimate the difficulty of judo techniques, to their detriment (cause both result in pretty crappy takedown games). Listen to a good wrestling coach talk about the complexity of setting up a any wrestling technique, and it is on par with the difficulty of any other standup art (I.e. Judo). I think the difference comes in what BKR and MT said in the risk of positional loss should a wrestling technique not be perfectly completed vs. Judo, along with an element of cultural norms that ar part of the BJJ scene (I.e. Primarily N.American based, influenced by MMA) which makes wrestling fit in more than Judo.
    Last edited by Bar Humbug; 4/13/2017 6:32pm at .

  9. #149

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wrestling is good to cross train if you do bjj but so is judo. I just got schooled by a korean today at the japanese national (ibjjf). I knew straight away he had experience in judo from his reactions to what i did. I play top and so did he, he was superior. I got ouchi garri-ed and it went down from there. Saw him in the finals and he tossed his opponent 3 times like nothing (2 were easily ippons). Judo offers skills that are usefull in bjj. Taking balance and using momentum for example. Bjj teaches this but i feel judo does it better (they focus more on this to be fair).

  10. #150
    Holy Moment's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wrestling and Judo are good.

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