9th Degree Black Belt

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 9/14/2006 11:28pm

Originally Posted by Tom Bone

How is the way Larry trains any different or worse than other American Kenpo schools, or hell any other Ke?po school in general? From what I've seen it all looks the same, just different packaging.

Well it does not look anything look Mike Picks kenpo, thats the guy who threw Larry out of the school, it soes not look anything like Paul Mills or Dennis Connasters Kenpo those guys have moved on.
but if you compare Larry T kenpo to Huks Kenpo then you can see that it is Larry who is more advanced, this goes for comparing Huks to the Tracy,s as well it is Huk who had moved on.
Kenpo from 1960 until now has changed hugely the package may look the same but the product has improved with every decade.Larry is just stuck in the 80s thats all, Huk is stuck in the 70s, Tracy in the 60s cabeesh!

I know it would take alot of detail and time, but this really interests me. How do you describe one being more "advanced" or better for that matter? For example, Speakmans Evolution Kempo or Kempo 5.0 system was devised by combining the American Kenpo system with sport MMA techniques as by their resident cage fighter (who I can't seem to find a record of anywhere). I would consider that program more "up to date" than most other Kenpo.

Could you give any specific points as to how one is more or less advanced than the others. I've only been doing Kempo since the late 90's and not in the AK system so I wouldn't be able to give any personal experience of those schools during those timeframes. But if you have personal experience to share, I'd love to hear about it.

**Tom Bone** · Posted On: 9/15/2006 9:44pm

I suppose it depends on what you want from your study, after all a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, so a plateau is reached a different times for different people once again depending on what they want from what they are studying.
If you want limit yourself to a competition based art and find who’s the best by elimination that’s fine is and what is more it’s easy to prove things from competitive results.
If you want to use bouncers as you bench mark for what you would like to achieve from your studies fine, once again its easy to tag onto your resume that my instructors is a real deal hard nosed doorman so that proves that my art must have value.
If you want to take your training to new levels which may fall out side of the commonly held views of what a martaial art is supposed to provide, then that’s fine as well, the only draw back is that as you challenge yourself and your art in a none competitive way then your biggest problem is going to be from the section of the MA community that want actual tangible results.
Kenpo can be any thing you want it to be because of the way it was designed or has evolved, just as you can look at basketball players from the 60s. 70s and the 80s and recognise the era by the style of play (not just the hair cuts and shorts, “packaging”) so you can recognise kenpoites from those era by there movements.
Not all Kenpo or for that matter martial artists want this from there Art, but usually it’s the ones who have seen through the hype and know that if its just about kicking punching and butting, not only is that not challenging enough but an organised event or a job as a bouncer is not the best place to find out if the vast array of material available really works.
As for specifics, Huk knows basic versions of all the kata and techniques up until he stopped training with “the old man anything after that he is in denial of its existence or validity, His execution is mechanical, does not employ or understand a lot of the concepts and principles introduced in the 80s, he has a only a limited idea of timing, has big holes in his defense,he has become to used to working against an under developed assault.
Larry works with compliant personnel to much, has an improved timing and a fundamental but staccato rhythm pattern, has gaps not holes in his defense, could sometimes more usefully employ his slapping hand, his work would improve if he stopped working against an underdeveloped attack.
Paul Mills has fast hands, highly developed timing and a good rhythm patterning, does have a sense of flow which is restricted by his poor breath control, his 360, 9 plane maneuvering is underdeveloped. The improved transition in his stance work has compromised the use of his stances to restrict them to use as power sources for hand delivered strikes. Once again works against under developed assaults.
Jeff Speakman, Hmmm not sure, the one real area of improvement is his addressing of the undeveloped assault which as you may have gathered is the fucking thing that pisses me off more than anything in kempo.
Personal Kenpo experiences MOI!, no I just watch a **** load of videos lol.

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 9/16/2006 1:53am

Hrmm, thanks for your response. Interesting take.

**Tom Bone** · Posted On: 9/16/2006 4:28pm

No problem Kempo Fist, like a lot of keNpo guys Iam a self opinionated bore

**mksm** · Posted On: 5/04/2007 10:23pm

anyone know much about Kimo? Read alot of BS and other things. I have started training with him recently and just weeding out some of the BS.

Thanks for any info

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 5/04/2007 11:26pm

Originally Posted by Shinobi_Osiris

whats larry tatums story? i cant find anything on him.....is he as much a corn-ball as Ed Parker?

??

If you are going to make a statement like that at the very least it should be qualified. But I guess you can say something like that so why not just sprout it off?

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 5/04/2007 11:34pm

Originally Posted by sempaiman

Good point, but also apllies to guys like Robert Trias (and other American service man), who left as brown belts and landed 4th degree balck. Parker just must have gotten the Greyhound station promotions.

Your talking about two guys who were instrumental in the development of martial arts last century, whatever you think about them. They are not above reproach but ridiculing Trias and Parkers' rank? What a stupid thing to do. That is like asking what style Bruce Lee had a Black Belt in? or what Ju JUtsu system the Gracies had rank in?

In all cases the question is irrelevent.

**hate2beU** · Posted On: 5/05/2007 1:30am

Originally Posted by Tom Bone

Mr. Sempaiman,
everyone knows that it was the Japanese and the Koreans that this applies to they left Tokyo/Seoul as 1st Dans and landed in L.A. / London as 5th Dans, I suppose that must have been the inflight promotions.
All you guys with Asian names have been had wooooohah hah hah.
OSS

Can you name which Japanese had a rank up-grade upon landing in America ?

**sempaiman** · Posted On: 5/05/2007 9:46am

Originally Posted by Dsimon3387

....

In all cases the question is irrelevent.

If you say so. I guess there has to be a guy that starts the system, so ge gets the 10th dan, and awards rank to others.

**aaaargh** · Posted On: 5/05/2007 6:53pm

Originally Posted by Tom Bone

I suppose it depends on what you want from your study, after all a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, so a plateau is reached a different times for different people once again depending on what they want from what they are studying.
If you want limit yourself to a competition based art and find who’s the best by elimination that’s fine is and what is more it’s easy to prove things from competitive results.
If you want to use bouncers as you bench mark for what you would like to achieve from your studies fine, once again its easy to tag onto your resume that my instructors is a real deal hard nosed doorman so that proves that my art must have value.
If you want to take your training to new levels which may fall out side of the commonly held views of what a martaial art is supposed to provide, then that’s fine as well, the only draw back is that as you challenge yourself and your art in a none competitive way then your biggest problem is going to be from the section of the MA community that want actual tangible results.
Kenpo can be any thing you want it to be because of the way it was designed or has evolved, just as you can look at basketball players from the 60s. 70s and the 80s and recognise the era by the style of play (not just the hair cuts and shorts, “packaging”) so you can recognise kenpoites from those era by there movements.
Not all Kenpo or for that matter martial artists want this from there Art, but usually it’s the ones who have seen through the hype and know that if its just about kicking punching and butting, not only is that not challenging enough but an organised event or a job as a bouncer is not the best place to find out if the vast array of material available really works.
As for specifics, Huk knows basic versions of all the kata and techniques up until he stopped training with “the old man anything after that he is in denial of its existence or validity, His execution is mechanical, does not employ or understand a lot of the concepts and principles introduced in the 80s, he has a only a limited idea of timing, has big holes in his defense,he has become to used to working against an under developed assault.
Larry works with compliant personnel to much, has an improved timing and a fundamental but staccato rhythm pattern, has gaps not holes in his defense, could sometimes more usefully employ his slapping hand, his work would improve if he stopped working against an underdeveloped attack.
Paul Mills has fast hands, highly developed timing and a good rhythm patterning, does have a sense of flow which is restricted by his poor breath control, his 360, 9 plane maneuvering is underdeveloped. The improved transition in his stance work has compromised the use of his stances to restrict them to use as power sources for hand delivered strikes. Once again works against under developed assaults.
Jeff Speakman, Hmmm not sure, the one real area of improvement is his addressing of the undeveloped assault which as you may have gathered is the fucking thing that pisses me off more than anything in kempo.
Personal Kenpo experiences MOI!, no I just watch a **** load of videos lol.

Gabster? Is that you?