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  1. #11
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    To be fair, he isn't saying that "Muay Thai came from India"; he describes Adithada as a possible predecessor of Muay Thai, which seems reasonable to me. The influence of Indian culture on that of Thailand is indisputable, and he's included Adithada under the heading "Forms of Kickboxing", a list that also includes savate, san shou, etc.
    Exactly, and that's my point of contention. Where are the references that indicate Adithada is a possible predecessor of Muay Thai. All this dude presents as a reference is a link to a half-baked webpage(this is the referenced link)

    If you go to that page, you'll find the following:

    Adithada is very similar to Muay Thai kickboxing. Fighters use their feet, hands, knees, elbows, and the forehead. Grappling is incorporated as part of combination moves in this fighting art for take downs. Pressure points are also targeted during dueling. This art has evolved into a dynamic fighting sport in Thailand called Muay Thai and other countries of Indo-China like Cambodia, Laos, and Burma.
    The person that makes that claim does not include a reference to back it up. It goes from "possible predessor" to an art "that evolved into a dynamic fighting sport in Thailand called Muay Thai".

    The influence of Indian culture in the region is undisputable. One can take things such as religious icons, architectural and artistic styles and writings from Burma to Cambodia and the whole Malay world, and see a definite Indian influence. That can be tracked, analyzed, studied and referenced.

    The claim this dude makes does not fit into that category. I don't see a difference between it and claiming all martial arts came from the Shaolin temple, that the Atlanteans are the sole creators of all pre-conquest civilzations in the Americas, that the Thetans are responsible for all our pains, or that martial arts have always been more about fighting and they all came from Asia.

    That's the unfortunate thing about the net. Anyone can pass (or try to pass) bullshit as fact. I'm going to :tongue6:

    *** EDIT ***

    Yipee, wiki hivemind FTW bitches!!! People have already taken noticed : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kickboxing

    The reference page provided is very unreliable and quotes many myths such as Bodhidharma being the founder of martial arts in Japan and China as if they were fact. The claims that it is the 'oldest form of kickboxing' and that it is a 'possible predecessor of Muay Thai' should be removed or better references provided.CKava 09:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
    Did any of you guys entered that in the discussion page???? It's cool if you did, BUT IF YOU DIDN'T, that will be even cooler since this bullshit claim has already popped in someone else's radar. :qgreenjum
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  2. #12
    Draven's Avatar
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    The exact origin of MT, like most old martial arts, is unknown, lets just leave it at that and stop talking out of our ass with dumb speculations.

  3. #13

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    Settle down ya'll. It could be from India. Not alot of history is known by those areas. Thailand, Cambodia, India, Burma, ect. The history there is frayed.

  4. #14

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    Another case of a El Macho "Meltdown". When does he take his meds? Does anybody know?


    Enjoy the weekend

    LG

  5. #15
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovegod
    Another case of a El Macho "Meltdown". When does he take his meds? Does anybody know?


    Enjoy the weekend

    LG
    You seriously seem to be missing the point of this thread, as well as the discussion about this individual changes and acts of vandalism that he has done on Wiki (a discussion that has been going on from way before I found this gem), not only in the MA section, but in other areas, including Math and History articles.

    Anyways, for the rest out there, just to sum it up to anyone who cares to read, this is about not passing half-baked, ethnocentric hoopla as verifiable references (which is what he is being accused off in wiki). Bullshido is just not making unverifiable, false claims about fighting, but on martial arts history in general. You can be passionate about it, or not; it's your pick.

    As for you lovegod, if it stills makes you feel better to say I'm on meds, that Jesus loves me, and blah-blah-blah please go ahead. Whatever makes you feel better in this argument.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  6. #16
    Odacon's Avatar
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    You skipped troll feeding 101 didn't you Macho?

  7. #17
    Ajamil's Avatar
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    Feh, everyone knows that EVERYTHING originally comes from India. Juijutsu? That's based off the Vedic word yuyutsava "desiring to fight." Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by black mariah
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
    And BJJ comes from the Indian art of love-making called Karma Sutra.

    GMW
    I'm not even a "grappling is gay" guy and that was DAMN funny.
    Or it would have been, if he had written Kama Sutra - Codes of Lust. What we have writen is Karma Sutra, or Codes of Action, if such a book actually existed.

  8. #18
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odacon
    You skipped troll feeding 101 didn't you Macho?
    I know man. Mea culpa, I forgot to take my little yellow pill :tongue6:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  9. #19
    Poop Loops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gringo Grande
    That's incorrect...it's a little known fact that Muay Thai came from Poland.

    GG
    I can't argue with that.

  10. #20

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    You know, there are actually ways to look at this. Savate and capoeira are sister or cousin arts (they share chausson). Judo and BJJ: similar. If there's an Indian connection, then there ought to be at least some similarities in power generation and attack philosophy between classic non-ring Muay Thai and the non-weapon components of Northern Kalaripayat.

    I can't answer that, b/c I've only seen Southern done, which is a very, very different creature. But if somebody wanted to explore the idea, that'd be a good place to look.

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