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  1. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 1:24pm

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    During this period, Hatsumi Sensei had determined that hard training does not sell well, and came up with the kata-based, free-variation, no-resistance training that made his fortune and has characterized the Bujinkan since the mid-eighties. Concurrently, he hyped up the ninja image once again, because Steve had proven that it worked, and stirred in all the trappings – the patches, black uniforms, construction worker’s tabi, exotic weapons, talcum powder, etc. Circa 1988-89 Fumio Manaka gave a series of private seminars in the States, for the most part to my own students, in which he presented the individual ryu-ha kata material. It went over really big. That was the final piece of the puzzle for Hatsumi Sensei. The Bujinkan took wing. Bujinkan students did kata, non-resisting, and did continuous henka, just like “The Old Man”. The difference was, the Old Man had a lifetime of serious martial arts training behind him, and he was, well, old.
    That paragraph somes up the Bujinkan.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 1:24pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rw4th
    Both Hatsumi and Hayes followed the L. Ron Hubbard business plan; start a religion, make money.

    Hayes' Quest Center/To-Shin-Do cult is the scariest of both in my opinion though.
    So bujinkaners are like thetan with tabi boots?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 1:26pm

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In any case, the more serious Shihan in the Bujinkan started to ask themselves… “what da f, homes?” Tanemura Sensei had already bolted out of there, establishing his own organization. Manaka Sensei followed. Several prominent teachers had also quietly resigned in the early 80s (I trained with one in 86, Kobayashi, just before he slipped away; he did not believe that the school should be opened to foreigners, but that is should be kept closed, esoteric, with the teachings only for Japanese). The continuous series of resignations, objections and quiet withdrawals by Japanese and Western students left Hatsumi Sensei in a quandary. What to do? Aha!! As it turned out, in fact Hatsumi Sensei had NOT imparted upon these instructors “the real knowledge” inherent to the Bujinkan (even though some of them had been with him for 35 years), but was in fact waiting to pass it on to the many Westerners now in the organization! Brilliant!! Hence in the last ten years we have seen, and continue to see, an onset of new material based on the secret knowledge of the nine ryu-ha.
    lol....nice.
  4. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 1:31pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    Thats is the jist of the document.
    Still piques my interest. I follow the Booj stuff mostly because I briefly took instruction from a guy under Hayes who could actually fight. So I do have a few, strictly qualified, positive opinions about the delivery system, though not the implementation, of those arts.
    Last edited by eyebeams; 9/08/2006 1:43pm at .
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 1:36pm

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you read the link in the first post it mentions how orginally BJK training was harsh, hard and brutal. That is was kata-ified for marketing purposes.
  6. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 2:11pm

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus

    Did Takamatsu invent seven of the nine ryu-ha of the bujinkan?

    Virus this is never addressed in the article, what it attack is his "ninja" Ryu-ha. Aka the ones I posted above. The other 6 are real ryu-ha taught outside the x-kans. However, Hatsumi isn't the Soke of them.
  7. rw4th is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 3:54pm


     Style: BJJ,MT,RBSD (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    Virus this is never addressed in the article, what it attack is his "ninja" Ryu-ha. Aka the ones I posted above. The other 6 are real ryu-ha taught outside the x-kans. However, Hatsumi isn't the Soke of them.
    So who is/are? Is there any documentation? Where are the students?
  8. Hannibal is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:33pm

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     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure about this business where the Bujinkan is some sortof mystic religion. The Bujnkan system is a martial art amongst other martial arts. Hatsumi does not launch some mass marketing campaign.

    Those that train in the Bujinkan, do so because they want to. Those that don't simply go train in another martial art instead.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  9. Plasma is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 10:16pm

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     Style: Jiu Jitsu | Knife

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rw4th
    So who is/are? Is there any documentation? Where are the students?
    ::Sigh:: let me see.

    Kukishin Ryu is still maintained by the Kuki family
    Tagaki Yoshin Ryu's Hombu is Osaka
    Gikan Ryu got its own World Wide Org
    Tanaka Fumon teaches Gyokko Ryu and Koto Ryu as the respresentive Soke.

    There is plenty of documentation through some of the Ko Ryu organizations, very accessable (at least in japan).
  10. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 10:36pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One thing seems pretty clear, Togakure isn't koryu. A 2000 year old lineage that goes back as far as the Roman Empire is very suspect. Japan at this time was not a proto-millitary state and the need for "ninjitsu" techniques is virtually null.

    The togakure, which is the bujinkan's main ninjutsu school is a big marketing point for the organisation. With regards to Tanemura looking into the history of the bujinkan ryuha's lineage, real koryu have volumes of information about them and as one auther on koryubooks.com puts it; The problem faced when researching a legitamate koryu is too much information.
    Last edited by Virus; 9/08/2006 10:41pm at .
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