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  1. DDale is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 7:19am


     Style: Sub Westling, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is Aliveness in Aikido possible?

    As started in a thread over in the newbie forum.... a little repost.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrizzle

    I know nothing of Aikido, so I have a question. How do Aikido guys spar. I've only seen demonstration vids, so Im actually curious how they go about sparring.
    This is the central problem I see, most Aikido dojos dont really spar at all. What actualy happens in aikido randori is one or more attackers do a single attack which the guy in the middle defends with whatever technique he can get. The attackers usually keep going for 3 to 10 or so and then swap.

    Now some dojos are more realistic with the attacks than others are and standing in the midle of 3 guys all trying to punch you or grab you one after the other for 5 minutes can be incredibly aerobic but to me there is still someting missing.

    I think I personally would like to experiment with one on one "Alive" sparing where the aikidoka put on some MMA gloves and one tries to land proper jab cross kick muai thai style combos and or goes for takedowns (lets call him attacker/uke) while the other (for the sake of argument we'll call him nage/defender) aikidoka uses atemi and movement to try to set up timing and distance to apply an aiki throw. To me sparring in this "Alive" way may help make aikido more functional for real life use. Much like any "alive" art the sparring would have to start slow and build up, but I recon going at it this way could be realy useful.

    Thoughts?
  2. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 7:31am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You would be doing kickboxing and wrestling if you were to try that. If aikido really came out in that situation every aikido school would be doing it.
  3. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 7:37am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The three core principles of aliveness are footwork, timing and energy. Footwork and timing are possible but I'mm not sure how you work in energy as that in my eyes means resisting the technique. Something I was always told not to do when I did Aikido.
  4. FredGarvinMP is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 7:41am


     Style: Koei-Kan, Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are pretty much dead on IMO. Aikido randori, no matter how many attackers, fails in one very large way; the attackers all use the same poor attacks that have been used up to that point in their regular training. You will still see the same lame-ass yokomen uchi to the top of the head, lame attempts at kicks and a lot of tegatana uchi. Occasionally you'll see a bear hug, but even the ushiro techniques are the practiced ones where uke comes from the front, grabs a wrist and works around to the rear. I think the movement aspect of randori is hugely important though and something I think was time well spent on.

    I admit that I have been trying to work in Aikido techniques into my sparring, especially since I have started working with a wrestler. It is extremely difficult, but I like the challenge and it underscores your idea of starting slow. It took no time at all to figure out that the techniques have to evolve greatly from the randori versions practiced in classes. That's what is going to take the most time I think. Time to take each technique you want to attempt and figure out how to modify it for your situation.
  5. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 7:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you need to train in something that is alive like grappling and try to find aikidoish applications.

    For example I have been doing some takedown classes that are greco based. So I am learning better to sprawl and clinch. I have been thinking what if following a succesfull sprwal instead of coming up and underhooking I get my hands behind the persons neck. My left hand/arm then pushes down on thier head while my right slide down to under their arm left arm and pushes up, while my left leg swings back and i drop my body down.

    If the person is driving through on their shoot this should turn into a good Aikido like throw.

    The problem is why bother if your goal is MMA most aikido throws take the opponent away from you instead of keeping them close where you can follow up.

    Anyways that's an example of crossing aikido technique and methods with an alive fighting system.
  6. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 7:53am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Search Function Newbie Scum!! [Stop that!--Ed.]

    . . . er . . . yes . . . sorry, . . . carry on. . . .

    --J.D.
  7. DDale is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:34am


     Style: Sub Westling, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slindsay
    The three core principles of aliveness are footwork, timing and energy. Footwork and timing are possible but I'mm not sure how you work in energy as that in my eyes means resisting the technique. Something I was always told not to do when I did Aikido.
    Seriously? Were we train we give increasesd resistance al the time as someone gets better but were an independant school not associated with the aikikai.

    Ok so assumeing some resistance and building up as time goes on but using the sparing metodology I described earlier do you think its possible to change aikido to the point where its geuinely alive? or do you think all the wristlocks and entering style throws will end up turning into clinchwork?

    Im just wondering because one of the guys I work with is a doorman and he swears by an aikido wristlock called sankyo for chucking out and contriolling people. I figure if you can get that on from serious alive attacks it would be a good start towards making aikido more functional.
    Last edited by DDale; 9/08/2006 9:42am at .
  8. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it would be very hard to make Aikido alive from a striking point of view. Grappling and throwing is another story however.
  9. DDale is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:43am


     Style: Sub Westling, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor X
    Search Function Newbie Scum!! [Stop that!--Ed.]

    . . . er . . . yes . . . sorry, . . . carry on. . . .

    --J.D.
    Your just trying to get your post count up arent you... :icon_mrgr
  10. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2006 9:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DDale
    Your just trying to get your post count up arent you... :icon_mrgr
    What kind of monster would do a thing like that?

    As regards the actual thread, I suggest you research the Tomiki/Shodokan style of Aikido, who engage in competitive randori.
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